Inside AOPA: Advocacy, Education, and the National Assembly with Teri Kuffel, JD

The hardest part of orthotics and prosthetics is not always the clinical decision. Sometimes it’s getting paid, staying compliant, and keeping a clinic running while everything around you changes. We sit down with Teri Kuffel, JD, Executive Director of the American Orthotic and Prosthetic Association (AOPA), to talk about the business engine behind patient care and why so many of today’s practice challenges cannot be solved inside the walls of a single facility.

Teri shares her unusual path into O&P through operations, contracting, and advocacy, then gets specific about what makes an O&P practice succeed. We dig into clinic scale and leadership, why a startup often needs both a strong clinical mind and a strong business mind, and how payer contracting and reimbursement realities can make “billing” very different from “getting paid.” We also discuss smart location planning using geo access searches and market research, plus real-world financing options from private investment and bank loans to partnerships and private equity.

We then zoom out to AOPA’s role in the profession: advocacy and government relations, coding and reimbursement support, regulatory guidance, education, and the value of bringing stakeholders together when reimbursement pressure, workforce constraints, outcomes measurement, and digital O&P care are all moving fast. Teri also previews the AOPA National Assembly, including hands-on technology in the exhibit hall and the growing focus on digitization, CAD workflows, and additive manufacturing. 

Special thanks to Advanced 3D for sponsoring this episode.

Transcript

Welcome And A Personal Update

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone, my name's Yoris Peels, and this is another edition of the Procetics and Orthotics podcast with Brent Wright. How are you doing, Brent?

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Hey Yoris, I'm doing well, man. Sent my son off to California to go play some baseball. So that's gonna be kind of wild. 2,500 miles away. Uh pretty cr pretty crazy. So for and and I I think probably the most difficult part, and I and I actually don't know that I've shared this on the podcast before, but Connor was uh diagnosed with type one diabetes in December of last year, and it's been quite a journey for us uh because he's an athlete and all that stuff. And uh so sending him out without a you know, without a net essentially, with uh this type 1 diabetes is always uh a little bit of an interesting thing, but I mean he does so well with it, and uh he'll be fine, but it's it's still as a parent, it's a tough, tough thing.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I can imagine. I can imagine. Okay, well, good luck with that. I hope he does well in the baseball as well, because I know that's a very difficult journey. So so uh I hope he does a good job there as well. So who is our guest

Meet AOPA Leader Terry Kuffel

SPEAKER_00 1:00

today?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Well, we're gonna have a lot of fun today. We've got Terry Cuffle. She is from the um American Orthotic and Prosthetic Association, also known as AOPA. They put on the best education and show in the uh people from all over the world really come to it specifically for orthotics and prosthetics. They've really leaned in uh as of recently to some of the the latest technology. And so I know we ta we've talked to other people. They've done something that they uh do every year called the digital showcase, which allows companies that are involved in additive manufacturing, or subtractive for that matter, carving and that sort of thing, to come in and share a little bit about what they do. But there's also like case studies. So there are a couple different case studies. So you walk into this room and there's a case study, potentially with a mold, and then you can see how that company gets from a scan to a final product. So kind of an interesting way to do things. So I'm very excited and I look forward to talking about AOPA, but she's been around the field for a long, long time, uh a little over 30 years. She's been a co-owner of Arise Orthotics and Prosthetics. She's been an adjunct professor at Concordia. She was a co-owner and vice president of Pongratz Orthotics and Prosthetics, and then an attorney in the late, this sounds wrong, the late 1900s, uh the and uh 2000s. So my par my kids always give me a hard time because they say that I was born before the turn of the century. So anyway, really looking forward to talking with us old now.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

I'm now goodness. Okay, so Terry, welcome to the show. So so tell us, how did you get involved with OMP?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Hello, Yoris, and hello, Brent. My path is probably a little a little different than many of the people listening because I'm not a clinician. I came into the profession through the business side of OMP. It has been 30 years for me. I've helped start a few family businesses. I have sat on several nonprofit orthotic and prosthetic boards. Uh it was 2007 that my husband Charles Kuffel, who is also a CPO and a fellow, and I co-founded Arise Orthotics and Prosthetics in Minnesota. Many of you might know Charlie. Uh, he served on the NCOPE board uh for about 10 years, and he was also the chair at a very critical time when they were moving uh to uh the master's degree program. So my focus has always been on everything that goes into operating a successful ONP practice, what happens behind the scenes, the contract

Business Operations Behind Patient Care

SPEAKER_02 3:30

work, the compliance requirements that we have, the human resources, organizational management, just the overall business aspect of providing ONP care. And because I have had all this experience, that gave me, it's given me first hand understanding of both the opportunities and the challenges that ONP practices face every day. So over time, I've realized that many of the challenges that we were dealing with at the practice level, they can't be solved within the four walls of the business. We need help. We need help. So at a very early time in my career, I reached out to AOPA. And that sparked my interest because there was advocacy work that I could do. And it ultimately started my involvement as a volunteer serving on AOPA committees, specifically ones that focus on advocacy areas, including their state reps program, veterans' affairs, government relations. And I always attended the National Policy Forum in D.C. each year. Advocacy became a real passion of mine very early on, both in Minnesota and in DC. I would gravitate towards working with our own P community members, our business owners, our practice managers, and our patients to improve access to care for our community. From there, my involvement, it continued to grow, and AyOPA reached out to me and asked me to be on the board of directors, including, I spent about eight years on the board and including uh presidency. I was president from 22 to 23. Um, I also had the opportunity to contribute my OMP uh skills and experience, as Brent had mentioned, teaching ethics and compliance and business practice management to uh the master's students in PO at Concordia University of St. Paul. I did that for about 10 years. I truly enjoyed and loved teaching the great minds that we have in this field. When the opportunity arose to become AOPA's executive director, it was a surprise, but it felt like a next natural chapter for me. I'd experienced the profession as a business owner, an employer, an educator, an advocate, a volunteer, a board member, a lobbyist. So uh AOPA president, all right, let's try. Let's see if that works for me as well. Uh, and it has. It's such a privilege and an honor to be here and to serve our members in the OMP community.

Scaling A Clinic Without Losing Quality

SPEAKER_00 5:50

So tell us a little bit about this business thing because this always kind of intrigued us. So, our first off, like, what is the right scale to have like an OMP clinic? Like, you know, is it a really great small business, or do you need like 10 people and a good back office for it to really make sense? Because there's a lot of businesses that only make, you know, a small car factory, like a car factory is a great example. A car factory works is there's two of us making hand-assembled cars out of parts, or if it's like some gigantic thing with 10,000 people. Like in between, car factories are not really great businesses. Is it the same with the OMP clinics that you have an ideal scale or ideal size of that business?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Well, we have, I'm not sure if there's an ideal size or scale. My experience has only been with two smaller O and P facilities, family practices that we have grown. But we certainly have all different size practices across the US. So for me, the core of my experience, I like to have my fingers in every pie, right? Yours. So when you spread yourself too thin across too many individuals to manage or too many lines of departments, that can become a challenge. Then you just really you have to bring in people, really great people, that you can impart your wisdom to and that will have the ability to grow with you and want to grow with you. And then you can build it to any size. I mean, look at, you know, we've got such great examples across our community with small business practices, medium size, and extremely large. And um, yeah, it's uh it's quite an ex it's a pleasure to be able to witness all of the different sizes and the capacities that we have across our O and P community. But I think your original question was what's the best size? Honestly, scaling, it just really takes the right leadership to be able to grow it with the scaling uh to a size that's manageable and still effective. Because when the law when it's at the end of the day, we want to make sure that we are serving our patients to the best of our ability, no matter what size the the company is itself.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And

Startup Basics Contracts And Reimbursement

SPEAKER_00 7:55

and and how about like, you know, if I'm just starting, imagine I'm just starting out. Let's imagine like our example is if somebody is just starting out. You know, what what would what would your advice be to them generally? Let's to Mary is about she wants to start her own clinic. What were what are some of the things where you're saying that you should really be doing this to really to increase your chances of success?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

You really need two bright minds in your world. You need a bright clinical mind and a bright business mind. And you need someone with strong contracting skills and abilities because you can be the best practitioner, but if you don't have contracts with our insurance carriers, you're probably not going to be able to do a lot of work. So it's really the coupling of those two together, uh clinical and administrative and bringing them together. You could just have two people. This could be one person, but it's an awful lot to carry on one person's shoulders. It's it's easier to manage when you've got someone who can hone in on that administrative side, that contract work, the organizational skills that are required, the challenges that come with reimbursement and the compliance issues. Have someone there at the ready to be in charge of all of those things. So you, as the clinician, can focus on the clinical aspects and serving the patients who need your full time and attention with their care.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah, I think it's a good point. I mean, I think I think you could be the best clinician, but if you don't have that back office stuff working, if you don't have that all these forums and all this insurance stuff, yeah, you're not gonna actually effectively bill anything no matter what the work is, right? So I think that's a really, really great point. It's about actually getting the money in the end, like and making people happy long term. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Right. You know, you can bill it all day long. You can bill whatever you want to bill. It does not mean that you will get paid. And then it does not mean that you will stay paid. So these are challenges we didn't used to have in our community. Probably, I would say, I would say 10, probably more like 15 and 20 years ago. We have very different challenges now than we did.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

And and so now we kind of need this back office, very organized type person. Maybe we also need that kind of like working with people, that warmth. That doesn't seem to be a problem. I think a lot there'll be a lot of people like that in this industry. But we also need this engineering stuff. You know, so two people could find this business. Sure. Uh and then and then what would you be looking for in the beginning? Would you specialize or would you go very broad or or or or would you uh what would be the kind of advice to kind of positioning yourself or or or or even where you you would

Choosing Location With Geo Access Data

SPEAKER_00 10:20

even start this business?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

I am a big advocate of do what you love and do what you know. So if you have a specialty, hone in on that specialty. If you want broad-based care, then start with broad-based care. So that's as far as who and then I think you said where?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Did what were your questions again? Yeah. Well, it's basically kind of like do you specialize, do you go abroad? Oh, or or actually where? Because I I just I just really get this, I have this sinking suspicion. We talked about this with a couple other people, that people are just kind of randomly, oh, I live in Cleveland, so I'll start something in Cleveland, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Yeah, that.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah. And yeah. So maybe you could be doing that smarter. Maybe you say, like, I don't know, there's more people in Phoenix than there's uh, you know, the the the area is growing, or there's more returns in this place in fall in Florida. So maybe we should go there. You know what I mean? Maybe you could look at that in a more kind of scientific way, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yes, there is. There, I mean, you can do geo access searches, you can do marketing searches, which would be highly recommended for someone starting out now. I remember when my husband and I moved to Minnesota, we scoped the area. Where were the ONP practices? Where were the locations? How many, how many businesses had several facilities, where were the open spaces? And we found one and we planted roots. And I remember our colleagues in the field, we were brand new to Minnesota. My husband had lived there, you know, as a child, but we had moved there and he wanted to plan roots for our family in Minnesota. And so what we did, we found an area and then I started working the contracts. And then I was told that, you know, I was asked, have you done a geoaccess search? Because we don't, we don't open new contracts in uh orthotics and prosthetics in Minnesota. And I said, Well, could you do the geo access search? And they they came back to me and said, Oh, you were right. We did, and we do have a need in your area, so let's contract. So you can work with um, you know, private companies, marketing companies to help you with the marketing and the the access in the area, the geo access to your graphical access area and see if there is a need. And I would highly recommend that that's something that individuals do.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Okay, that's good. And

Financing Options Banks And Private Equity

SPEAKER_00 12:20

then and what about like financing? Are there finance options? Are you basically kind of like on your own? Could you go to a bank? Or what are the kind of options that are available to people who would like to start a new clinic?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Uh, for the the practices that we started, we made uh private investments, you know, family investments into the organizations. There absolutely are loans out there that there are banks. Uh, it's really great if you have some equity in something so you can get started or you partner. There's plenty of private equity firms out there also who are interested in partnering with individuals to start OMP businesses.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

So on the on taking all that and bundling it into some of the resources that AOPA

What AOPA Does Advocacy And Support

SPEAKER_01 13:00

has for clinicians, both the large and small practices, can you just share a little bit about how AEOPA is is helpful in advocating for really everybody in ONP, but for those specific instances that Joris was talking about?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yes. Um, well, AIOPA is our profession's national trade organization. And we've been around for over a hundred years. And the focus of AIOPA has always been on exactly what the profession needs. The needs are today and where we're going in the future. Uh AIOPA represents the business professionals that prov that provide and support the orthotic and prosthetic care of our community. It's our role has evolved over the profession in the last years, um, but at the core at its core, it remains the same, which is supporting our members and advancing ONP. The work that we have spans several major areas, including advocacy and government relations. Our coding and reimbursement and regulatory support is a big area with uh Joe McTernan and Devon. We have a call center and people call in every day to ask for help with coding and billing issues. Uh, we have lots of educational and professional development, all kinds of business resources. AIOPA continues to support research and evidence-based care, member support and engagement. We and we continue to raise awareness of the value of ONP care. These are just a few of the areas that, you know, AOPA can help businesses. We're also a convener. One of our most important roles at AOPA is bringing people together. So not just our own members, but our sister organizations and our partners throughout the ONP and rehabilitation communities. And that goes for both within the US and also internationally. It's that spirit of collaboration that has become increasingly important because many of the biggest issues that are facing ONP today, they can't be solved by any one organization. We need to all work together to help solve these issues that we're having. So we are actually AOPA right now is currently engaged in a strategic planning process that will help guide the association for the next five years, which is a very exciting time for us. So we are actively listening and we've had surveys presented to our community, both members and non-members, to help us with our listening tour to understand what the needs are right now. What are the needs that are facing small practices, medium size, and large practices? How can AOPA help? And the the feedback that we have received has been integral in the process of our strategic planning that it will help guide our association for the next five years.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

So, and then you've got a we've got a show coming up right around the corner. Yes. Like right around the corner, right? Couple of weeks. Yeah, I still yeah. Well, I'm a I'm a always a late uh planner. So anyway. So yeah, tell tell us a little bit about that show, what you expect, especially when it comes to getting large and small businesses together, and then we can kind of springboard off of there.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Great,

AOPA Strategic Plan Listening Tour Themes

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Brent. I yeah, exactly three weeks from today, I will be on a plane going to Las Vegas for AOPA's National Assembly. And we're really looking forward to greeting everyone and welcoming them to Las Vegas. Historically, it has been our highest attended show, and that is September 9 through 12 at Mandalay Bay. The National Assembly is where our entire profession has the opportunity to come together. And this year's program reflects how much is happening across the profession. We expect anywhere between 2,000 and 2,500 members to attend. And the attendees can earn approximately 35.5 continuing education credits, and that's across five different tracks of education. That's clinical, business, technical, pedorthics, and digital OMP care. Some really exciting, interesting points about this year's assembly. Uh, we're excited to share that the opening keynote will be delivered by Dr. Hugh Herr of MIT. And quite impressive, and we're very excited to sit down with him. Dr. Shane Werdeman will have a fireside chat as part of his keynote after he delivers it. And Dr. Herr, his career sits at the intersection of technology, human mobility research, and lived experience, which makes him an especially compelling voice for our audience. The assembly itself, the education at the assembly, is intentionally broad based because the audience is broad. We have clinicians, we have technicians, we have business owners, we have researchers and manufacturers, uh, with students and residents, and all kinds of other allied health professionals and patients who all come in together to learn. Um, another big aspect of our national trade show is the exhibit hall. Uh, it's a huge component where our attendees get to see and experience new technology and products rather than simply hear about them. And that we have over 160 exhibitors with us this year. We have hands-on manufacturer workshops. I think you were talking about that at the beginning of the show. We have uh an Ask Me Anything table. Uh, there's a digital ONP care showcase that makes the meeting increasingly interactive. Uh, we also have the new IIP, International Institute of ONP mobility lab for those who are there to get some activity. And we have the amputee coalition community day programming as well. And that's on Thursday, which is more than a half day of programming where we will intersect with the amputee coalition and some of their community members who are there so we can help learn with them. There are so, so many fun Vegas specific touches we have too. There's a an AOPA jackpot scratch off that will encourage attendees to visit participating exhibitors directly. Looking forward to seeing how that turns out this year. The assembly is truly, it's the opportunity to celebrate people, the people that we we are and who we are advancing ONP through all kinds of collaborations and networking. Uh, we also have an awards uh program this year. We're spreading the awards over a couple of different days and the standard awards that we have lifetime achievement, clinical awards,

National Assembly Highlights And Keynotes

SPEAKER_02 19:20

and then also we have a new one, the ONP Volunteer of the Year Award, because we want to recognize those who serve our ONP community out of the passion that they have for this profession.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Okay, okay, that sounds good. And and I I I have a question a little bit about like you're talking about this listening to her, of course, you're in the process of this listening to her. So you don't know stuff. Are you, if you would cluster the kind of things you're finding already, like what are some of the issues you think you want to find out more a lot? Let's not say it's like the number one issue, the the community, because that's what people are going to tell you. But but what are the things you're you're hearing already where you're like, wow, we want to really know more about this?

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Our education is critically important across the board. But the ones that I think you're asking me to hone in on are ONP is navigating significant changes right now, day to day. And what are those changes? They revolve around reimbursement and regulatory pressures, evolving technology and digital care. We have workforce issues, we have business challenges, demonstrating outcomes and the value of ONP care. That's a big one. Uh, and in all in all, it's ensuring patients have the appropriate access to care and, you know, an increasing access to care, making it easier, quote unquote, for us to be able to serve our patients in need. These issues, all of these issues, require that we have conversations from across different parts of the profession. We need to come together clinically and administratively on the business side to make sure that we can serve our patients to the best of our ability. And it's at the assembly that provides people with the opportunity to have these conversations. And that's really these conversations are difficult to replicate virtually. So it's it's great to be in person to be able to have them.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

That sounds that sounds really cool. And then and and let's say I have a burning issue and I'm like, I think we should talk about, I don't know what this thing. How do I get to you? What is the best way of saying, like of of making that a priority, or at least getting that on your agenda to think about and stuff? Well, what's the best way of getting in touch with you guys for this kind of stuff? Like if I'm thinking that the big problem is we don't have enough new materials, something like that, I think nobody's talking about this. How would I get that to you guys?

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Uh, we encourage attendees to find us. Find those who are working AOPA staff, find AOPA board members. Uh, Kimberly Hansen is the AOPA president right now, and Matt Swiggum is the president elect. I am also around and will be on the floor. Please find us. Come chat with us. One of the biggest aspects of my job right now is listening. Listening to our members, listening to the needs that they have, and working with the board and the staff to try to put some solutions to the needs in practice. So come find us. We're excited. To be here where we look forward to meeting e individuals who'd like to come up and talk to us not only about what AOPA's doing, but their day-to-day work and the needs uh that they have um that they're experiencing day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

That's cool. And like a a lot of our focus here is just the digitization of OMP, 3D printing, and all but also just broader CAD and stuff. How important is that to you guys? Is it just a little bit of like a much bigger picture or is it like a uh an emerging trend? What what's this digitization stuff to you guys?

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah, well, there's a you know, a whole host of education on digital ONP care. And so it is extremely important to our profession. Uh and so we provide the ability for those workshops to occur and for individuals across the US to meet and connect about the ONP digital care and digitization and how to incorporate that into daily practice so it helps provide, you know, a successful environment and a climate for patients, most importantly, and for businesses to prosper.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Okay, that's cool. And uh and if we look at kind of like, yeah, you're saying this education is important, in-person is important. You know, are are you seeing these events growing? Are there more people?

Digital O And P Care And Hands On Tech

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Are there more new people? How how do you think the the the the futures for these in-person events?

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Uh they are growing, most definitely. You know, we had uh the pandemic back in 2020, and uh we had to take a pause, right, on our national meetings, and we did. In uh each year since then, our numbers have just increased, 21, 22 to today. And we're very excited about Las Vegas because historically, prior to the pandemic, Rayopa historically, it has been its highest attended uh trade show. Really looking forward to having a strong showing and bringing people together um to talk about their what's happening in their businesses, their practices, and their clinical management of the patients they care for. Okay, that's super cool.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

And and and Tara, and and uh if you're looking at this listening tour thing, you're gonna be are you gonna be visiting a lot of people as well? Are you gonna be going around the country or how how are you gonna be doing this more of this listening stuff?

SPEAKER_02 24:02

We actually have spent the past year traveling, visiting O and P facilities, visiting our members both nationally and internationally. So whenever we had the opportunity to have a conference, we have also had the opportunity to visit some of our members. I had the pleasure when I was at OT World in Leipzig, Germany this past May to also plan a personal trip over to, let's see, we were in London and then we were in Dublin. And when I was in Dublin, I had the opportunity to visit Olive at True Life and see their factory there. And that was a pleasure for me. Most recently, I was in Canada and we were at the OPRC meeting in Canada and we visited a tremendous amount of members who were there exhibiting as well and uh working with um our Canadians. But more importantly, on the day-to-day, I'm on calls every day, all day with members about critical issues that they're facing in their organizations and their day-to-day life. Because I am from a small practice and they have that experience, I really hone in on what people are experiencing as challenges, daily challenges. And I want to help. And I've got an incredible staff, a team of people who are so hardworking. And they they know they many of my staff have been here for more than 20 years. So they, you know, like me, have a lot of experience in ONP and the work that we need to do to help our community, our extended community. It's really a pleasure to be able to do the outreach that we do and network and collaborate. We have both Kathy Carter at ABC and Robin from NCOPE, are we suite mates here in Alexandria, Virginia

How To Reach AOPA And Get Help

SPEAKER_02 25:45

at the AOPA offices? So it's very easy to walk down the hall and have some conversations about what are we doing in the field and how we can collaborate to make sure that we are meeting the needs of all of our members.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Okay, that's super cool. And and and because you uh encounter all these kind of like these issues and these problems people have, is there a thing I, if I'm a clinician listening today, is there a thing I could do like maybe today or the next couple of days that would really, you know, make my life a lot easier and really kind of uh, you know, avoid future problems? Like, for example, for young businesses, startups are always advising, like, okay, let's figure out how we separate this business. You know, everybody's always talking about things going well and stuff, but a lot of cases it doesn't. So we have to have a plan. What happens when we break up the business, right? What how how do we do this? How do we slice and dice this? So stuff like that that I think is always good advice. Is there stuff you could say that, wow, as a clinician, you should really do this? Or there's certain things you should take into account that can really help you uh going forward?

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Yes, yes, absolutely. So I would say right now, if you have questions about your ONP business or a challenge that you're having as a clinician in your ONP business, please pick up the phone and call AOPA. We are so happy to receive your phone call. And we've got, you know, call center. And most of the time the calls end up with Joe McTernan and Devin Bernard because

Closing Takeaways And Vegas Meetup

SPEAKER_02 27:00

they're about the reimbursement challenges and coding issues. But we can also direct you. They know, we all know, uh, to direct any uh business type challenges uh throughout our staffing. We've got Ashley White here and myself and Joy and Akilah and we've got a whole host of people who have great business minds and and can help lead and direct to different resources.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Well, that sounds super helpful, Terry. And well, thank you so much for being uh here with us today.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Thank you so much for having me, Yoris. I'm really just such a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Awesome. And and thanks a lot thanks as well for being here, Brent.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah, I'm looking forward to uh AEOPA 2026 in Vegas. Uh, that should be a a a fun time and seeing everybody there and getting getting to know everybody. And then uh I'll just plug the Prosthetics and Orthotics podcast too. We're gonna have a booth out there. And so uh we're hoping to be interviewing a bunch of people out there as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Great. Yeah. So the assembly, it you know, it's all about bringing people together. So of course, there's we we hope for high attendance numbers and our continuing education participation, the education part, all of this matters. But what AOPA takes home as success is what people end up taking home with them. And those outcomes, they're harder to quantify, but we want to make sure that people are better connected with new knowledge, they make new relationships, and they leave Vegas energized from the work that they well, what they've learned and incorporate that into the work they do every day. If all those things happen, then we feel like we've had a successful assembly. Um, AOPA wants to make sure individuals know that we are here to listen to the members. We are here to collaborate. Our profession is changing, whether we like it or not. And AOPA intends to help members navigate that change. So that's what our assembly is all about the community that we are as much as the education uh that we share.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

That's awesome. So I hope you guys get to all see each other then. And thank you for listening to another episode of the Prosthetics and Arthurtics Podcast. Have a great day.