The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast

Why Integrating Tech, Clinical Reality, and Resident Support Builds Better Clinicians with Adrienne Hill

• Brent Wright and Joris Peels • Season 13 • Episode 1

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Is this the lost episode? No, but there is some "old news".


We dig into how O&P is changing fast: major acquisitions, new L codes, and a fresh vision for education that blends clinical reality with digital tools. Adrienne Hill shares a grounded path for students and clinicians to build skills without burning out.

• Hanger’s acquisition of Point Designs and upper limb strategy
• Medicare L codes momentum for partial hand coverage
• Three education models and how to choose
• Why residencies still define clinical growth
• Embedding scanning, CAD, and 3D printing in coursework
• Practical literacy vs making the "sausage" in-house
• Shifts from plaster to digital and what’s realistic
• Workflows that prevent burnout and improve retention
• Ownership dreams, debt realities, and timing
• The modified seven-year rule for career moves
• How to pick residencies that fit your EQ and IQ
• Going rural or high volume to accelerate learning
• Broadening applicant pipelines and faculty needs

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to season 13 of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast. This is where we connect with experts in the field, patients who use these devices, physical therapists, and the vendors who help bring it all together. Our mission remains the same: to share stories, tips, and insights that help improve patient outcomes. Tune in and join the conversation. We're glad you're here and hope it's the highlight of your day.

SPEAKER_02:

Hello, everyone. My name is Joris Peels, and welcome to another episode of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast with Brent Wright. How are you doing, Brent?

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, I'm doing well, yours. We have some news today, though. Okay. You wouldn't believe it. So I saw it come on LinkedIn, and Hangar made another acquisition of point designs. And I know that you are a big fan of point designs. We've had Levin on, we've had Chris Baschek on. And uh, I mean, what a what an amazing pickup for them.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, totally. I mean, I think also it's also very clear if you would like to sell your business in OMP, our podcast is the way to do it. I think this is very, very clear. That is true, you know. It's happened quite a bit. Uh they've bought about 5% of the companies that come on on the show get bought. So that's, you know, I I yeah, I love point designs. I think it's a great product. I think it's a great 3D printing product as well. And uses multiple technologies, multiple ways to make just a better experience of something that, you know, looks really simple but is super not simple. So so yeah, it's beautiful and a beautiful financial thing for them. And again, it's the hangar marches on into becoming kind of like a full service everything store for OMP, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I, you know, I think it's a very interesting acquisition in that they um so hangar prosthetics and orthotics has an upper extremity division. So people that specialize in upper extremity, and this really helps with that vertical integration of that. So now they get the knowledge and techniques of what Chris Baschuk has come up with for upper extremity stuff, not only the point design stuff, but a lot of the very high-end shoulder disarticulation, co-opt, myoelectric prostheses, all that stuff is stuff that they get as well. So it really rolls in really nice with their portfolio. And then with the acquisition of fill hour as well in the upper extremity space. Now they start having this vertical integration where they are, yes, you can buy it, you know, and sell to other people, but they're really bringing their cost down, cost of goods down per piece because they're doing this all internally. So I I think it's a I think it's a super smart move. Point Designs also has just an amazing human talent pool, which as we know with additive manufacturing, that yes, you can have the machines, but if you don't have the humans behind it, that's that's a problem. And so I think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Cool, man. Good. And and and again, we we think they're going to just keep uh keep this product, maybe even grow this product line, right? So it's gonna be like internal stuff, like you mentioned, but also they're gonna just keep selling this to other people, right? We think that's the the strategy that makes the most sense, right?

SPEAKER_01:

I would think so. Yeah. So I think not only continuing to build this, there's a bunch of L codes coming down the uh the pike for, and L codes is how people bill insurance. And so Medicare actually is starting to say, yes, there are some things that we're missing, specifically around partial hand processes. And so I think they are also seeing the writing on the wall that these things are going to start getting paid for by Medicare. And so it's just a really good, good move overall. And, you know, when you have smart people like Chris and Levin and the the uh his name's escaping me out, the one that did the metal fingers, the original design, they also have other ideas and they they probably get in capital constrained by bringing to keep from keeping those other ideas to market. And now that's not the case. And so I think it's really neat. I I think it's a good move. And you know, you know, at the my other part of my mind is like, okay, so you see hanger doing these other acquisitions and stuff, and I don't think it's any secret, so to speak, but I don't think there's a doubt in most people's minds that in the next, I would say, five years or under, either they will get sold to another PE or venture capitalist firm, or they're gonna look to go public again. And these companies are going to definitely be a great addition to their portfolio.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, super cool. Okay, so who is our long-suffering guest today on the three or the podcast?

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm super excited for having Adrian Hill. She is the program director at Kennesaw State in Georgia for orthotics and prosthetics. And now we've had uh Dale on before, and he's actually a student there. But this we had him on, and he's actually helped with the uh the orthotics and prosthetics podcast stuff. But prior to him coming on the show or going to school, we had him on too. So that's kind of our connection. But what I really appreciate about Adrian is the way that she handles the school part of things, I do feel like she's pushing the envelope into the to the new generation of clinicians. And and I and I think I've told Adrian that we we have a great future. Uh, and these future clinicians are amazing, they're thoughtful, they're smart, and the education probably has been lacking. And I think Adrian is a big part of the shift of that, and and just doing practical things, connecting students, challenging students, and this idea of helping think for yourself, ask the questions, you know, file them away. Adrian is really kind of leading the charge in that. And then I also appreciate she has a way that she has to teach because of the standards right now. But I know that she's definitely been poking around the edges because some of that stuff is not necessarily real life. And so she's poking around the edges and pushing the envelope into the real life stuff, such as the additive manufacturing, such as uh billing, such as AI, and all that. So we have a lot to talk about, and uh, I'm really excited to have her on.

SPEAKER_03:

Hello, hello, everyone.

SPEAKER_02:

How are you? We're good, we're good. So thank thanks thanks for coming on the show. So, how did you get involved with OMP?

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. So, the age-old question, right? Um, tell you a little bit about myself. So I'm from Washington, D.C., and my grandfather was a bilateral above-knee amputee from the war. And so he wore stubbies in the house, and my entire family is six feet and taller. And so when I was younger, it was nice to kind of have somebody that looked me in the eye. And then he'd put on grandpa's magic legs, take me out to the movies, out to the park. So I've been around prosthetics my entire life. And then when I was 12, my dad is a mechanic by training. He was helping a lady change her tire in the rain, and another car came and sideswiped that car. And so my dad really went through the whole gamut of orthotics and prosthetics. He had a Lazarol frame and tried to rebuild back his bone, and then he got infection. And so my dad ended up as a transtibual below-the-knee prosthesis where as well. And so when I say it's been around me my entire life, literally to this day, it's been around me my entire life. So I probably knew what I wanted to do when I was probably nine or 10 years old is put people back together again and get them back moving. And so this was a calling from, you know, kind of destiny. And so I've been hooked ever since. So I was a clinician for 17 years. I did work for Hangar Clinic prior to um coming into education and actually went up the chain quite a bit to become area clinic manager in Atlanta, Georgia. And then from there, as my kids got older, I wanted a little bit of change, but I could not give up on the OMP field. It's literally in my bone and in my blood. And so the transition into education when the Georgia Tech program shuttered and the Kennesaw State University program opened, it was just right up my alley, literally in my backyard. I live very close to campus. And so it was just a smooth transition. And I wanted to bring clinical care to education. Even though it's there through residencies or integrated programs, I wanted to bring it in a different way. And so even though the program was already established, I wanted to put my, as you say, put my little two cents in there. And that is where I've been, and it has been a whirlwind experience, and I've loved every minute of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Super cool. So first off, like let's look at this from a market because there's weird stuff going on from, let's say, if we look at this as a market or like the the the overall Yep. As a business. You know, the overall as a business is educating people, right? Because like now people are talking about masters or not masters. Some schools are offering it, some schools are offering it very, very different ways. It's it's a very different landscape than I don't know, like an English degree or something like that. You know what I mean? Absolutely. So, so how how is it how is it how is this changing at the moment?

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so currently, right now here in the US, you will see two different kinds of education programs for prosthetics and orthotics. Now, at this day in time, all of the prosthetic and orthotic education is master's degree for clinicians. So the assistants is still um associates and bachelor's degree, but for a clinician, if you want to be a full certified prosthetist orthodist, that is a master's degree. But you have two styles of master's degrees. You have a traditionally, or technically three styles of master's programs. You have a traditionally seated program, so three or four of the programs are still that. So you do a two-year seated, in-person, face-to-face education, and then a two-year residency after you graduate. And that kind of completes your your prosthetic and orthotic education. Then there is a kind of online component or like a hybrid program. There are several of those as well. You'll do kind of six months on campus, six months online, and but there's still kind of a traditionally seated program if you think about like the Northwestern program or the Concordia program. Online, go on campus for a little bit, learn all the fundamentals, get your hands dirty, and then still have to do a two-year or 18-month to two-year residency post um education. And so you're still at that four-year mark. And then there are two, maybe three new programs that are integrated model. And so what that means is as you are doing your education, you then go out into your residency. And so it's an integrated model as you're being educated or university or the school that you attend is also in charge of your residency rotations. And so then with that, it could be a three or four-year program, I think it's a three-year program. Don't quote me on that, but I believe it's a three-year program, maybe four. And then you're coming out as board eligible versus once you receive your master's degree, you're going into your residency. So three different paths, but it kind of meets the understanding of what certain students need. So if you are brand new, you know, kind of I got into prosthetics and orthotics because I saw a commercial on television, you can find the right program for you and your education style and your learning style.

SPEAKER_02:

Then also Oh, yes. Uh-huh. Is in your opinion like one that's vastly superior, or does it really, really matter on the person or the circumstance or it's really based on the student.

SPEAKER_03:

Like if I, if hindsight 2020 and I'm still sitting where I am and I am now a student, coming straight out, knowing that I want to do PO from the very beginning, I probably would still choose a traditionally seated program because I need that fate one-on-one face-to-face time with my instructor. Whereas if you have already been an assistant or you've already been a technician and you don't necessarily need that one-on-one hands-on experience, you know, maybe the, you know, online basis type programs are great for you. And so it's really this, excuse me, it is the preference of the student, which is also a good thing because now we are not bending to them, but now we are creating or lowering the barriers to the style of education that a student needs.

SPEAKER_02:

And how much, you know, do you see any kind of new changes coming and things is about people are updating education again? Or do you think that there should be certain uh changes that you want to usher in?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I I believe for sure that things are coming down the pike, that things are changing. And that comes from, you know, our associations and our education, ABC, IncOP, being open to listening to students, being open to listening to clinicians that are currently out there and what they need, being open to what educators need based on the changes in academia now. Um, and so the changes need to happen. They, I believe they are happening, be it slow or fast or however you feel is happening, it is happening. You got to think about it. Brett said it earlier today. Our education standards right now are based on 2017. And so, with that, the changes happen, what, every 10 years, I believe. And so, no, that changes are gonna be coming any moment now by 2027 to the education system, which will change the residency programs, which will change the certification programs, and vice versa. Or the other way, the certifications have already changed. And now incope and the standards on the residency side have changed. And so that trickles down to us as education. So it is, it is gonna be moving with the times, and not just the times of right now, but the times of the future. So not just thinking about what's happening in 2025, what's happening at additive manufacturing, what's happening in clinics, what's happening everywhere. We've got to create that change now so that 10 years from now, when the next set of standards, we're already making those changes.

SPEAKER_02:

And is there like a way, because we we keep we keep mentioning this idea of having a more practical kind of uh classes or more kind of like a uh internship kind of based classes or something like that? Absolutely. Is there a way to, you know, do the technician thing, like just shortening it? Because like college is so expensive in America that I think it it would be tempting to have more of the practical stuff in work and then have a like one-year master's or something like that you know what I mean, or something like that.

SPEAKER_03:

So it's the catch 22, right? So I'm here at Kennesaw State University and we have a 48 credit hour program, but we still have to be able to teach the students everything that they need. And that's where I don't want to short anyone's education to a one year or anything like that because of what's needed to be educated. And not only what's needed based on the standards, what the future holds for them. And so one of the classes we have here at KSU is a CADCAM class, so that when they go out into clinic, they're not lost when one of the clinical locations are 3D printing their sockets, or they're not lost when someone says, on the research side, if someone says, hey, we're partnering with this, we're partnering with Shiners and we need an IRB, and these are the patients we need to gather based on what, what, what I want them to know what an IRB is. I want them to know and understand research. And so if you shorten that, I think something may get lost in the sauce, right? And so a two-year program to be able to get everything under your belt, I don't see, I think the ones that are longer than that, that that's where you run into things. But I don't think we can fit it all in in one year.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, okay. And and and how about this, yeah, this 3D printing stuff, we're all about that. Is that a big part of what you do? You say you have a module in there. Is it is it an exciting part of what you do, or do you think it's kind of like a smaller part than it should be? What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03:

No, it's a very large part, and we're doing it over multiple of our classes. And so our CADCAM class happens your second semester here at KSU. And so then when you go to transphemoral prosthetics, when you go to transtibial prosthetics, when you go into upper limb orthotics courses, you are scanning your partner, printing that, you know, printing that socket. Even in upper limb prosthetics, we're scanning our patient models so that we have those files in order to learn how to modify. And that's what comes into it. So, no, it's not a small part of our education because it is the future of O and P. And so we can't cut our nose off the spite of our face. We've got to teach it right here in the school so that they understand scanning, they understand 3D printing, they know what a purist printer or a bamboo printer is on the smaller scale, what slicing is, you know, all of those things. And so if you get the basics in them, in the student, even an older student that's coming back and they were already a technician or they've already were an assistant and didn't get that education from their general courses from undergrad, now you're giving them an extra stepping stone. And that's how it should be, especially on the master's level.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, cool. And and you find is is it difficult to educate people on 3D printing, or is it just like, you know, kids know more and more these days? And it's actually becoming easier and easier as we go along.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it's becoming easier and easier. Thank goodness the price of printers have come down. So you may have your normal high school student that has a 3D printer in their home. I'm one of them. My son loved his engineering concepts class. And so I was like, hey, for your birthday, we're gonna invest in getting a printer here at the house. And so he's been doing all of those things. And so as education, even on the high school level and the undergrad level increases, we're getting a much knowledgeable, much more knowledgeable student that's coming into the program that are eating this up. They want to know what the next step is. Okay, we're printing right now on a prusa or on a bamboo. What's the next step of that? What is the next fusion printer? What is what are they doing and using out in practice? And that's when they go to the academy meetings and the OPA assemblies and actually get to see what is happening, what is happening on the on the industry side, on the clinical side. And that's where we're bridging the gap is making sure the students attend our association meetings so that they see what's happening, going and doing clinical rotation so that they're seeing what's happening in practice now.

SPEAKER_01:

So, with the 3D printing side of things and such, what is your overall opinion on what a clinician is should be responsible for? Do you think they need to have a knowledge, you know, from end to end or from the, I always say like the dentist standpoint, like make sure that you get a good scan, get the good patient intake, who cares how the sausage is made, and then you put the make sure you know how to fit the prosthesis. You still have to communicate in between and you still have to make clinical decisions. What is your opinion on that?

SPEAKER_03:

So my big thing is awareness, right? So they need to have, I don't think they need to know the sausage making, but they need to know that it has to go into a casing, right? And so I think it's that knowledge of or the awareness of what the next steps are. And so, you know, and these also are students on the master's degree level. So, yes, I think a clinician and a student, if we're talking about like, you know, a resident. Coming in. I think they need to have the knowledge of scanning. They need to have the the maybe to be able to do it once while they were in school and educated. So that when they go into practice, that's when the practice actually happens. When they go into residency, that's when the practice actually happens. That's when they get good at the system that's at that location. So the hard part of Ham Min is if I'm using comb 3D at school, and then when they go out into practice, they're using something different. At least they have the knowledge of a style of scanning technology.

SPEAKER_01:

So with the eyes coming in green. Uh-huh. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So with that, what do you feel? Do you do you see a trend of of moving to digital even with some of some of the other clinicians? Or is it just going to take a little while for some of the people that are completely stuck in plaster world to move on out? Or do you feel like there will be a a tipping point where it's most people are going to be using it?

SPEAKER_03:

So I'm the hard part is I'm a millennial, right? So I'm in that middle ground. I think that it's absolutely something that's coming, or not even coming down the pack, that it's here, right? And I see more and more clinicians scanning every time I go into a clinic. And I, and now I'm talking about three years ago when I was in clinic, I would say 60% of our prosthetics was scanned. One clinician only did scanning altogether. I was one of the clinicians that did a mix depending on the patient's residual limb. I did half scan, half plaster work. And then there are others that are still dealing in all plaster. I think it really comes down to educating our current clinicians that are that are doing all plaster enough that they are comfortable scanning if they have to. But I think what the future holds is, and I will say this, the students that are coming out definitely have the knowledge of, or at least for sure, the skill to scan. Versus before it was plaster, plaster, plaster. You watch someone else scan. I'm talking about everyone has either picked up their own cell phone or in class been able to scan.

SPEAKER_01:

And I also wanted to know a little bit more, um, and I and I I'm pretty sure that I've heard you speak on the some of the mental health side, mental well-being, work, not work-life balance, because I I don't know that I'd necessarily agree with that statement, that messaging or what have you, but more taking care of yourself. So you, you know, historically, I mean you've been around long enough, and you probably remember those those days too, where you come in early, you do your modifications, you do all your stuff, and then after you see all your patients in the office, you go, and that's when you do all the uh skilled nursing facilities and such and fabricate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So yes, so not only you couldn't just take your laptop home, you had to sit there and write out all of those paper charts. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

And so what I'm what I'm seeing is the this fabrication side, well, the additive manufacturing side. And I and I don't disagree with it. Like the the clinicians, they are not super interested in working stupid long hours, which I don't blame them. It's not healthy. So I just I'd love to get your perspective on on kind of that workflow and kind of the history versus where you see the field going to be able to take care of people and make sure that we retain these this talent in coming into ONP.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. So I think as as people retire out, I think you will see younger managers and younger area clinic managers that understand that balance or understand that, hey, the new clinician may want four tens. The new clinician may want a better work that stops right at five o'clock, that they can really truly turn their brain off and then come back at it the next day so that they are a fresh clinician when they walk in the door. And so as that transition happens, and as we move up younger clinicians into management roles or into leadership roles in the sense of residency directors or just decision makers. Let's say that maybe sometimes they don't want to be a manager, but they want to be a decision maker. And so if they're moving that into decision making and actually asking the resident, asking that new, newly certified clinician, what are they looking for? That's where, that's where the change will be created and the change will happen. And I think a lot of clinics, even the major ones like Hangar, Autobach, they're seeing that and they're saying, okay, let's do some 410s in um, you know, high traffic clinics so that they have more clinicians and they're rotating and those kind of things. These are just things I'm seeing, you know, boots on the ground in some of my students that are now clinicians, what they are, what they have called and told me, like, hey, I'm working 410 so that I can have Wednesdays off for XYZ. The other half of that is there are some companies that haven't embraced that. And so it's gonna take those kind of during a WIP meeting and during like just one-on-ones to say, hey, what can I do as a manager to help you balance? Or I notice that you've been quiet, or I notice that you've been running out right at five o'clock. Is there anything that I can assist with? And the more open and transparent the conversation, I really truly believe that's where you're gonna get more retention in your clinician.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you do you see with that though, that the the independent is going to go away just because the I hope not. Well, I mean, I d it's it's been interesting because apparently there's there are less and less new clinics being opening, right? So people are more becoming part of a a a larger clinic or what have you. So I'm just wondering, is there a I think for mental health and all that stuff, I think that there's uh it's super important to have that, but does that also affect new clinics coming in where, hey, I just don't want to have to deal with all the insurance stuff and all the other things that go along with it. I'm not even gonna consider opening one. And and I've even seen to the point of like, I actually just want to be a clinician. I don't even want to manage people. And so, like, that that aspect is going to be changing over the next few years.

SPEAKER_03:

I think with the, okay, so I see it both ways. I have had some students that say, hey, my future is opening my own clinic. You know, I'm getting my feet wet as a clinician here, and eventually either I'm gonna buy out my boss or I'm going to open my clinic. There are still those driven individuals that are coming through prosthetic and orthotic education. So just know that they are still out there and that's still a drive, but they want to get their feet wet. They're also coming out with anywhere from$100,000 to$250,000 worth of debt. Whereas if you look at the history of opening OMP clinics, that particular person was either, you know, they they purchased their father's business or they were grandfathered in and they were certified based on previous education on the bachelor's level, or even, hey, um, I was grandfathered in, I took this exam, and now I'm certified. And so those there are a little bit of different barriers. To open an OMP clinic now in this day and age with tariffs, and this day and age with um just getting something off the ground, the capital's not there for a student that just incured$200,000 worth of debt from undergrad to grad. So I don't think I think they're getting their feet wet, saving up so that if they know for sure their future is private practice, that's where it's coming. Or they're already currently working for an independent and seeing if, hey, can we partner? But you got to realize that's gonna come five, 10 years down the line. You know, and so I would look into how many independents aren't selling and actually are partnering with another small independent, or hey, within my own clinic, I am training up my next person.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. No, I I think that's I think that's great. And I think it's good advice too. I mean, Yoris and I talked a lot about this idea of, you know, get your degree, right? The paper, the education, that sort of thing. But the real learning will come, or the real learning, but the real learning, real life stuff will come and and really immerse yourself to get good at the craft. And once you do that, those those opportunities, you know, you can go a corporate route or you could go an independent route, but they open up and at least you know what you're getting yourself into. So I'll and I'll use myself. I'll I'll I'll throw myself under the bus. When when I was, and you're saying you haven't heard this story. So when I was uh I was a technician before, and I met a person, and he and he had known that I wanted to be an ONP for a long time. And so he said, Hey, once you finish, I want you to come work for me after your residency and you can buy out my business. And I just thought I was gonna be amazing, you know. So it was like, so I did that, and it's hard. Like this is a lot of stress. I'm just out of school, I'm trying to learn, I'm also trying to learn manage a business, trying to get figure out how I'm gonna get myself paid. I'm trying to market all that stuff. It just didn't work out, but I could definitely see if I would have kind of switched that a little bit and taken the time to work under somebody for three, five years and then make that change, that would make a difference.

SPEAKER_03:

I call it my modified seven-year rule. If anybody ever sat in like one of my OPA or um academy talks, I talk about this to residents. What's gonna happen is, and Brett, you're a perfect example of what happened, is at five years, so you did your education, you did your residency, and now you're working. Three years, you're gonna want more responsibility. And then at five years, you're gonna get the itch of I either wanna be a manager, I'm gonna break off on my own, but it's just an itch. It's not actually a dream yet, or it's not actually a reality yet that you feel like, hey, my hands are really good. I feel like I know enough to open up my own clinic. And so at seven years, I think you become a manager, right? Like you really say, like, I have enough that I can make, you know, trans tip, trans femme with my eyes closed. I feel comfortable, my hands feel really good. Now I can jump into management and feel comfortable taking on another task. And then be in management, you'll get that itch at three years. Then at five years, you're gonna feel really good. And then the question comes, okay, at that seven-year mark, am I going into corporate or am I branching off and opening my business? And so though I always call it like the modified seven-year itch because or seven-year rule, because you're gonna get that itch. Everybody, not everybody, you know, majority of people do. So, you know, it's that flight or flight or you know, just to get off the pot kind of thing, you know. And so at seven years is when you get that that dream needs to come come to fruition.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it. And then also I think one thing I want to point out, look, the residency is hugely important for your career, I think. No matter what education thing you do, it's it's it's super important. I think Brent, one point, Brent advised, and most people advise to go to like a a clinic where you just see a lot of stuff. High volume, great, you know. But do you have any other uh advice on on finding right the right people to to have a residency with, to find the right clinics? Is it do your personalities absolutely have to click? Is it do you do you need people from a similar background, or do you need uh what do you need when finding that residency?

SPEAKER_03:

So I say that's where EQ meets IQ, right? So are you a team player or do you like to be independent? Do you say you want someone to watch over you, but you really hate micromanagement, right? So it's funny because someone will say out of their mouth, like, hey, I want to be with a person that's um that I can watch them for a long time and then they watch me for a long time and give me feedback, and then then I'll feel good. And then reality, they actually hate micromanagement. They don't want someone watching over them and looking at them all the time. And so I always call it that's where your EQ meets your IQ. Find the perfect residency that gives you the balance of both for what that particular student needs. And if it's not what you're looking for, or you what you thought it was gonna be, you have to say something. Do not sit there for 18 months of your residency and you didn't really truly get what you needed there. And so you have to say something. So if initially when you're in school, and this is my recommendation to my students here at KSU is hey, if you say you want to go to XYZ location over Thanksgiving break, over Christmas break, over spring break, I need you to go to those locations so that you actually spend longer than just a day there, right? Spend two full weeks there and find out do you like the team that's there? Where do you fit into that team that you're working with? Right. And so they've got a team that's been gelling and a clock that's been moving this whole time. You need to figure out how your cog fits in that. Go with, well, I'm gonna bring this, this, and this. Hey, I fit into your well-oiled machine by bringing it this extra piece of lubricant. Extra piece of lubricant could be that you already have CAD camera scanning under your belt. That extra piece of lubricant can be, hey, I did a pediatric rotation while I was in still in school. And I can, you know, while I was at a meeting, I got certified in cranial remoting or whatever your teeth. You've got to be able to fill in where their cogs are already moving well and fill in in that way. And so that's always my advice because you can't go in there guns blazing, thinking that you're gonna change the world. Figure out how to get in that clock and then you'll change time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I really like that. And I think that's a really good perspective. I hadn't heard about like from that perspective, find a find a way to be a value ad. I I have heard it said like you really have two options. You either plug in somewhere or you plug in yourself as an entrepreneur. And and I think it's important to for everybody to remember is obviously there's risk reward in in plugging in yourself, never underestimate the value of a place where you can plug yourself into. And I think I think that's important because it is a team thing, and you don't exist. Like if you're plugging yourself in, you don't exist without the team.

SPEAKER_03:

That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that's an important perspective. So thank you for uh putting it that way. That was cool.

SPEAKER_02:

And then how about uh this is another thing that that I noticed that people are quite randomly go somewhere, right? They just end up, you know, because their last internship was somewhere, because they're studied somewhere, because their girlfriend lived there, whatever. It seemed that there's huge differences between the north, uh the big cities, smaller cities, smaller towns. There could be places that are super underserved, like and but people kind of seem to just be like, oh, I feel comfortable in this town, kind of like, but but but you want to open a business, you're gonna go into debt for this. Come on, let's let's you know. Is there are there more sensible ways to kind of figure out the due diligence, right? Yeah, the more sensible ways.

SPEAKER_03:

So the hard part you run into is the family dynamic that you literally just spoke on, right? Um, my my wife got a job in this location and that's where I have to be. Or, you know, I've I have children, and so therefore I need to be in this location. My recommendation as a resident, if you are single or if you are married and you guys, you know, your spouse is has a remote job or has flexibility at their work to move around, your heart's desire, though, is always been some of my recommendations, or go the place less traveled. So I ask my students, are you willing to go to Utah? Are you willing to go to Idaho? Are you open to going to Hawaii? Are you open to going to Alaska? Like, don't, my family only has lived in this small town in the middle of nowhere. Hey, during your residency, this is your time for two years to go anywhere in the nation to learn something different. I've had several students that say, Oh, I got into it for prosthetics and realize that I actually love spinal. Well, you need to go somewhere where there's skiing and accidents and trauma or wherever so that you can really dive into that spinal side of your education. And so going somewhere that has skiing or diving or anything that can meet your fancy for what you readily probably didn't realize you loved, that you can specialize in. And then if later on in life you need to go back home because your parents have dementia or they're aging and you need to be there, now you have a skill set to take back to those other locations. And my other recommendation is if you're not married to anywhere, go to that small rural location because then you will see everything instead of just be limited to, hey, this is a specialty clinic in this large location. If you are in a rural location, you're gonna see not only the diabetic, you're also gonna see the trauma, and you're also gonna see the wound, and you're also gonna see the hip disartic because that location is the only one in 50 miles. And so literally everything that walks in your door is going to be unique and different. Depending on the age of the clinic or the resident or the clinician, hey, this is something you're doing for five years, 10 years to say, hey, this is so that I can build up my chops.

SPEAKER_02:

Super sensible. And and how about that, like we have the feeling that that that, well, are less people gonna come into OMP, or is that just a fear everybody has, or is it still super popular, or do we have to really seriously worry about that?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, for me here at KSU, there is not a uh lack of applications, but you know, the faculty we're in a need of people to want to educate so that we can bring in more clinicians. I my current seat right now, I don't see it, but I have heard from other educators that they're not getting the applicant pool that they're looking for. I think what we, the change that we need to kind of make in our mind is the change in style of student that we accept, right? So maybe it is someone that has worked as an assistant, worked as a care extender first, worked as a technician first, and that's who comes back to be our clinician, right? I think currently, right now, undergrads are just looking straight to that master's degree without getting their feet wet, our actual clinics to say, hey, yes, no, for sure, I did 200 clinic hours and this is where I want to be. So I'm hoping and praying that our feel does not go away. And currently, right now, with the applications that are coming through, I don't believe it will, but we need to back our students and back our people and be open to the applications that come through because they may be different and not that traditional style of applicant. All right.

SPEAKER_02:

So, Adrienne, thank you so much for your time today. This was really great and really I think we learned a lot. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. I hope I was able to give a little education to you guys.

SPEAKER_02:

Totally, totally, totally. And uh, Brent, thank you for being here today.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, this was great. And thanks, Adrian, for sharing uh your story and also your advocacy for our field. I know it is uh contagious in a good way. And I I I I I love that, and I love that about your program. And uh so help with uh additive manufacturing. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. Thank you guys so much for having me today.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you for listening to another episode of our podcast. Have a great day.

Contributor

Brent Wright

Co-host
Contributor

Joris Peels

Co-host