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The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast
The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast is a deep dive into what 3D printing and Additive Manufacturing mean for prosthetics and orthotics. We’re Brent and Joris both passionate about 3D printing and Additive Manufacturing. We’re on a journey together to explore the digitization of prostheses and orthoses together. Join us! Have a question, suggestion or guest for us? Reach out. Or have a listen to the podcast here. The Prosthetic and Orthotic field is experiencing a revolution where manufacturing is being digitized. 3D scanning, CAD software, machine learning, automation software, apps, the internet, new materials and Additive Manufacturing are all impactful in and of themselves. These developments are now, in concert, collectively reshaping orthotics and prosthetics right now. We want to be on the cutting edge of these developments and understand them as they happen. We’ve decided to do a podcast to learn, understand and explore the revolution in prosthetics and orthotics.
The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast
Temperature Control for Prosthetic Sockets with Bryan Costello
Bryan Costello shares his incredible journey from nuclear power plant worker to prosthetic innovator after losing his leg an accident. Drawing on his mechanical expertise, he developed heating and cooling systems for prosthetic sockets that address temperature regulation problems that have plagued amputees for decades.
• Developing heating elements that integrate between carbon fiber laminations in prosthetic sockets
• Creating cooling systems with circulating water that prevent overheating and excessive sweating
• Designing moisture-wicking distal end pads that absorb sweat and protect sensitive residual limb tissue
• Working with Special Forces members who successfully climbed Mount Everest using his heated sockets
• Expanding his technology to orthotics and medical emergency cooling boards for trauma patients
• Pursuing L-codes to make his innovations more accessible through insurance coverage
• Finding success through direct marketing on LinkedIn and social media
Special thanks to Advanced 3D for sponsoring this episode.
Welcome to Season 11 of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast. This is where we chat with experts in the field, patients who use these devices, physical therapists and the vendors who make it all happen. Our goal is to share stories, tips and insights that ultimately help our patients get the best possible outcomes. Tune in and join the conversation. We are thrilled you're here and hope it is the highlight of your day.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone, my name is Joris Peebles and this is another episode of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast with Brent Wright.
Speaker 1:How are you doing, brent? Hey, joris, I'm doing well. Man, one of my favorite things is when we do our talking, but our last episode? We've done 120 episodes and I've never seen you. I mean, sometimes you get genuinely surprised, but you know having that guest come on at the very end and you're like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 2:That was that that was I was imagining you were able to do that.
Speaker 1:I was amazed, dude. So anyway, yeah, and you know, the other cool stuff is North Carolina and I don't know how it is where you're at, but our weather is starting to get way, way better, so we are actually able to get out and do some hiking and all that stuff, and so that's always fun, to get out and see some sunlight and not be be cold yeah, okay, yeah, so here it's getting a little better as well, and we're we just went to the market today, a little walk and stuff like that so yeah, it's definitely getting.
Speaker 2:Uh, the weather is getting better and today's the launch of the new bamboo lab printer, so I shouldn't have actually left the house because that's, of course, a seminal event for 3D printing at the moment, because everybody's been speculating about that and that's really exciting as well, and so a very, very good day. And I would apologize for the construction in my neighbor's house. If you hear something in the background, I'll try to minimize it, but it's kind of unavoidable.
Speaker 1:I wanted to do that but yeah exciting day all around, so I was really stoked to generate well, and I know you probably know more than what I know about the bamboo stuff. So, uh, but anyway, I, it's, it's very interesting. You know, it looks like it's going to be a bigger build volume and, uh, it appears that they have some other uh, well, they, it's. The stuff that they've exposed is that it's going to be some servo motors, uh, which is going to be interesting with like homing type of things, or whether it needs to be homed or not. That'll be interesting. It looks like they've included some sort of laser thing.
Speaker 1:And then I follow I think his name is herm something about light. I, I didn't quite follow that, um, but uh, you know, it seems like, oh, and they also said you don't always have to use cnc, uh, to get good parts, and so there's a couple ways that you can look at that. Right is one is you just make really good parts, or there is a post-processing mechanism as well as a camera mechanism to show quality of the parts itself. So I think what is it? Uh, five, five pm central time is when, when they're going to be releasing that. So I, I love that they're doing kind of like the apple thing, you know is, uh, there's, there's a lot of people watching this and you know I've gotten a lot of requests like just within this past week, brent, what printer should I buy?
Speaker 1:I said, can you wait one week? Because I think it's going to be worth it if you wait one week, and I think that's the other thing. You know that the uh advanced 3d is is is wanting to release a printer that's FDM and it's very specific for prosthetics and orthotics. But there will always be people that are looking for a more budget-friendly printer, and I think the Bamboo is definitely that printer, and I think this is where novel materials are really going to come into play, and so that's what I'm also really excited about. When you're looking at the bamboo, you know we run, we call it our Everclear material for the test sockets, and then we have this material that is a flexible material yet we believe is going to be great for definitive sockets, and we're making it specifically for 1.75 filament because we know and we also suggest and we have success running on some of the bamboo printers. So I think that's really neat as well.
Speaker 2:So the system the Bamboo HD2 or whatever it's called H2D is essentially, it comes with either a 10-watt or a 40-watt laser In addition to just the FDM. So $2,800 is for the 10-watt, so that can do cutting. It's got like vinyl cutting, sticker cutting that kind of thing. It can cut drawings and stuff like that. It's got laser engraving as well, of course, pen drawing. Then it's got a 350x320x325 build volume, 1,000 millimeters per second tool, head speed, 350 degrees, hot end and it's got a heated chamber up to 65 degrees and they've got an actively heated dry box, dry chamber kind of thing which could precondition material and of course that would allow them to reduce the gradient between printing and storage and of course remove humidity and the water, which is of course a problem. And yeah, that's just generally what it is. So it's more technologies.
Speaker 2:Rather than focusing just on making a giant or a really industrial 3D printer, they've basically gone broader and said, hey, you can have this laser cut, you can have this do other stuff in your office as well, you can engrave things and all that. So it's interesting. I think it really shows their focus on more of that versatility, more of that want to own that hobbyist space rather than move only into the production manufacturing space and she doesn't want to make the market much bigger. You know, this is like somebody who maybe they're into engraving engraving super easy. Maybe they try that first. Maybe they do printing every once in a while. You know, um and and like I said before, like there's, no, there's not a lot of uh, other examples of other, like cnc and milling tools and stuff that are desktop besides printers. You know they're out there but they're not out there and they're millions.
Speaker 2:They're out there and they're like tens of thousands typically, except for, of course, cnc itself, which, of course, you know, Roland and all these guys make a ton of them as well, but you know, so I think I think it's a really interesting machine.
Speaker 2:I think it's not the Stratasys slash Ultimaker killer that people may have expected, but it could actually, kind of, through the kind of back door, be that same kind of device, because for $2,800 with a 10-watt laser, it could really be an extra thing for a lot of people. So I think it's super exciting and a bit surprising as well, because they even teased that it had a laser and kind of like that kind of thing, but still, and that that it has dual head and stuff like this. Um, uh, but yeah, it still wasn't what people were expecting. So, you know, I wonder, I want to get my hands on one and take it for a test drive, see how it works. And they're really in the driving seat at the moment. They're really gonna, um, you know, kind of uh, determine what's going to happen and what other people are going to do the next couple of months, if not years. So, yeah, very exciting time.
Speaker 1:So you're saying that the Z is 325? Is that right? Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, so almost 13 inches.
Speaker 1:So, for the stuff that we do, I mean, this gets really interesting, because for the stuff that we do, especially for trans-tibial patients, it's going to be under that many times, and so I think it's going to be a great option for the prosthetic field. And then, also, you think about all the opportunity in the pediatric space when it comes to things of this nature. That's going to get you a lot of things for kids especially maybe zero to nine, something like that, and you may appreciate this. So, in Raleigh, we had somebody from I think it's called like Healing Hands for Palestine, or something like that, so a kiddo came over from Gaza that lost the bottom of his foot on some sort of mine, I believe and we're providing him a prosthesis, and it's the same type of prosthesis that we do in Guatemala. It's a partial foot prosthesis, and it was printed on a bamboo printer.
Speaker 1:So how cool is that we were able to do that, and so what we're excited about, though, is, now that we have that file, we're going to be able to actually send him back with a few that will be able to grow with him as we go. Or if he completely destroys it, he'll have another one and it would be very inexpensive to do replicatable it. He'll have another one and it'd be very inexpensive to do replicatable. And then, even if for some reason he blows through all of them, we're still able to continue to print them and somehow get stuff to them. So that is really where I think additive manufacturing is super exciting is in these types of cases where it'd be a very difficult type of device to create with traditional fabrication. Yet we're doing it with this technology, the TPU-style material along with bamboo. But it sure would have been nice to have the extra three inches or so to get them just a little bit longer, but it worked nonetheless, yeah, super cool, and that's the development.
Speaker 2:We see where we could do many more devices on these entry-level systems. Now maybe they don't supplant specialized ones, like you want them where it make, or really high-end systems or like your, your hp systems, but they make the makeable, the, the nearby makeable, if you will, the adjacent makeable much more possible, much easier, uh, much easier to do. Uh, so it's really exciting and I think, I think that what we've learned so far on bamboo is look at the specs are usually kind of kind of crazy, but they do kind of back it up with a very different way of of solving problems. You know they typically companies are an additive or, like you know, they're trying to solve everything through mechanical engineering, essentially stability issues, print issues, whatever, like oh, we need a better, you know, stronger chassis or whatever.
Speaker 2:And what we've seen with bamboo, with input shaping, but also like more advanced functions than that, is they use a lot of software, these, a lot of sensors to to monitor the print better and to get better results. And if they keep that, which of course they probably have, which they have better cameras now, better filament monitoring, better calibration for the dual nozzles, right, and then of course these brushless servos right, and that should really make a really, really very powerful package. And if they then kind of reduce errors as much as they've been doing in concert by monitoring and using their software to monitor all those errors, then the performance should be quite incredible. So we'll see if they can keep up with what they've been doing and I think even if they make it or they don't make it, they've just made everybody run faster.
Speaker 2:I think we've said that before. If you're an Ultimaker or BCN or Creality, you know it's back to the drawing board. You have to dream bigger. That's right, you know, and that to me is just going to do a world of good for everybody, but it's going to be a world of hurt for everyone in the near term, I think. Sure.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think the other thing that's interesting is that they've felt the pain of some of their other stuff, you know, probably failing, so people putting on wet TPU, right, and then they're having to, you know, feel those technical requests. It's like, well, dude, you didn't dry your TPU or your PETG and so they put that on. And now, with this kind of heated chamber, you also start getting more consistent prints, very good dimensional tolerances, good surface finish, that sort of thing. So what they're doing is they're also creating it to where people are going to be successful on their prints, because they're getting ahead of probably most of the technical issues when it comes to moisture and surface finish for 3d printing totally dude I agree, okay.
Speaker 2:So who is our poor, poor, poor, long show friend?
Speaker 1:oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah, brian. Brian's been hanging out very nicely for just a second, but uh, where I'm really excited to have brian costello on. He has created some things that are quite novel for prosthetics and orthotics. He actually has created some heating and cooling features for prosthetics and orthotics. So can you imagine being in Dubai in a prosthesis and just sweating like crazy? How cool would it be for you to have air conditioning for your socket? How cool would it be for you to have air conditioning for your socket? Or, on the flip side, if you're a mountaineering type of person and you go to some mountain that you want to scale and your legs are just cold as all get out, how cool would it be to have some warming devices in your prosthetic socket? So that's one of the things that I want Brian to share about, but I know it's deeply personal for him as well, so I want to hear his story as we go along with it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show, Brian. So how did you get involved with orthotics and prosthetics?
Speaker 3:Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I worked in a nuclear power plant for quite some time before I got into prosthetic and orthotics. I ended up losing my leg in that nuclear power plant and I suffered quite a bit from my residual limb being cold. My leg was ripped off and what ended up happening was they used my lat muscle for a graph. So basically I have internal skin for my graph and it took me a little bit longer to heal early on, but I suffered from my residual limb being cold, difficult for me to go snowmobiling.
Speaker 3:Getting back to doing my life, what I was doing prior to losing my limb and what I realized, it was like light bulbs going off. When I realized this, in that power plant, that nuclear power plant that I've worked in many of them in my career it is all piping systems, and I mean just it's all piping systems, and I realized that prosthetics and orthotics are pipe in my eyes. So what I ended up doing was and I know Walter Reed tried to come up with heating and cooling in the Mayo Clinic and who I'm involved with now and good stuff going on. That's basically where the heating and cooling you know cooling come from. Is that nuclear power plant, I had systems patented. I took systems from the plant and I had them patented and everything's made in America.
Speaker 3:And recently, with a cooling system, I had this company do a jig for me. It's aluminum tubing and what happens is you'll place it on the first lamination and then the final will cover it and, as you know, I mean carbon fiber is a great conductor. I mean it heats and cools in seconds and yeah, so it's really worked out really well for these type of systems that really benefit me early on. And you know, with inflammation, my circulation, and just you know it's just been. And then I have a true, true distal end pad for my liner that I put inside that absorbs moisture and uh, so I mean, these are the three main main items, my concerns as an amputee you know, early on moving forward, because when I asked if they had heat or anything like that, what they said is, yeah, there's heat and heating pads all over the place, plug it.
Speaker 3:You know I said, oh, okay, I mean now I have to stay inside to have heat and um, so basically that's what really started everything for me, and there was a seal that scaled Everest. You know special forces I was involved with with um and uh, it was just, you know, it's just been a really good process for me moving forward. You know a lot of work, but uh, the, the systems that I have uh are really getting uh dialed in and um, Okay, that's super exciting, but tell us a little bit about this accident.
Speaker 2:I understand you don't probably want to talk a lot about this. What is that like? Was it? What time of life did that happen to you, and how was that? Was it really literally wake up in a hospital and being like what happened?
Speaker 3:And what was the aftermath of that? I worked in a nuclear power plant, like I was sharing, and what happened was they? I was sent to the state of Michigan to help out with a sister plant with a piping system, with a piping system, and so when I got down there, uh, we, we didn't work on Saturday and normally normally I would fly there, but this time it was summertime, july, beautiful. I had a brand new motorcycle, I threw on the back of my truck and way to Michigan. I went and, uh, got there, and we didn't work on a Saturday, and so I went to the gym. I took my motorcycle and I went to the gym and on the way back from the gym there was an illegal that hit me and ripped my leg off and I was really fortunate.
Speaker 3:There's some really great people out there in the world. There's some really great people out there in the world. A gentleman got out of his car with his girlfriend's belt and came over and I was told all this stuff after I mean, I ended up see the spray every time, my heart beat through my heart, the blood. But yeah, the guy really saved my life. I'm really great friends with him today and that's how basically it all started for me and I know with the trauma that I had, you know, my leg being ripped off, my condition, my, you know it was sensitive early on. They just when, from my understanding, when they saved your life. They don't bury your nerve endings and that's where a lot of the pain came from.
Speaker 2:They didn't have time to do pretty much any of that, so and and and for you is there like a you know your life before or after, or is it just an event that happened in your past, kind of a life defining event? How do you look at this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it changed my life totally. Um, I just see things totally different today. Um, I mean I I'm I'm more physical today. I mean I'm more energetic, I do a lot more in my life. You know I do a lot more in my life. You know I still kept working and you know, with the patents and you know getting everything together for lawyers and you know, moving forward with the heating and cooling and moisture control, I believe are the three most needed items on the market to date.
Speaker 3:That's what I suffer from and it's been asked for for years and years and years. And I see where people had tried to come up with it West Virginia, there is a boat camp heated socket and they basically broadcast that. You know globally. You know heated sockets are here and what happened was is they never followed through? They weren't able to complete the design for for it and but, yeah, that's where you know more information that I had learned and you know that's what really kept me going forward, moving forward.
Speaker 3:And I mean plus, I mean I suffered from it and no one. I mean I'm an HVAC specialist, so I didn't see anyone out there in the prosthetic orthotic world and basically I mean it's moved over into orthotics and just many different other avenues. So it's been really exciting for me lately. Things you know sales in Europe and right now I'm involved with Paragon Medical that's going through the FDA in Massachusetts. They were really excited about, uh, you know about what I had and you know so, um, this whole whole adventure it's a life-changing deal for me and you know I continue to get.
Speaker 3:I just continue to learn and get better with with this new direction that I'm going in and uh, so it's been a learning process and it's been. You know. That's the best part for me is, you know, I was able to, you know, make adjustments, like in prosthetics, you know, and you know keep moving forward with what I had. And you know I went through the valley of death and so I was involved with Welch Allen, some people here in Syracuse, new York, that they ended up hundreds of patents in hospitals, medical devices that sold their company, I think, in Chicago, but I was involved with them. They were a big, big help for me and you know, and moving forward with this also.
Speaker 3:So I had some really good, talented people and I ended up using consultants in, you know, in areas where my language, where I didn't speak their language, so I mean just the whole ball of wax for me it's just new direction, new. Everything changed my life, crawled out of a hole early on and I just kept trying to do the next right thing and you know this is where I ended up. So it was a pretty cool deal and you know, just to be able to keep moving forward. And you know, with different entities and you know aspects of what I have going on.
Speaker 2:So and and talk to us a little bit about, like the prosthetic, well, the warming and the cooling, like why would people turn to this? Is it a comfort thing? Is it much more than that? Uh, does it vary a lot between people. How, how does it?
Speaker 3:work. I mean I suffer from circulation issues right from the get-go. So this is how I like to share it. If your hand is freezing and I give you a tight glove to put on, it just really doesn't work well. So I mean, basically that's what I go through, it's the circulation issues. I have to put on a tight liner and my bone cannot be flopping around in the socket. So if you go outside in the wintertime, what is the temperature? The carbon fiber socket is going to that temperature, whatever the temperature is outside. And so I don't know a lot of amputees that hang outside in cooler temperatures for very long periods of time, because the carbon fiber just it'll go right to the temperature where the temperature is outside.
Speaker 3:And basically I have these heating elements that I had made in a company called Reliatrace, that I had these designs made up, and they go in between the laminations of the carbon fiber. 12 volt battery really quality, really quality heating units. And uh, you know that's where that started with the heat. You can put it between the insert and socket, which is closer to your residual limb, or you can just put it in between both laminations of the carbon fiber. That Special Forces SEAL who scaled Everest double amputee. We put his heating units between both laminations of the carbon fiber and what I ended up using was a Y that connected both his sockets with one battery. I was assuming we could just put it between the insert and socket and if anything ever happened he could replace it quick light. But he wanted it between the uh the uh insert. He wanted, I'm sorry, between the uh both laminations of the sockets, that that I had made for him and uh. So they heat up in seconds and if you cover them up, it's just you know. It's it's just you know.
Speaker 3:For me I'm back doing my life now. I'm, I'm snowmobiling, even in the summertime. I mean my leg, my residual limb is, is cold. You know I suffer from circulation issues and I know everyone's different. A lot of people sweat and you know and and that and uh. But I know over in europe it's a big deal and I've had many, many, many calls about this and um. So I needed to get it to where it is with an l code and and and if you're talking about this, is it?
Speaker 2:is it you're telling me that they, they really don't understand why I would sweat a lot and you would just have a cold limb? Let's say, is that, is that really kind of like, really kind of that in the dark about this?
Speaker 3:Everyone is different. So I mean, some people have that problem with the residual wind being cold all the time and, like myself, it doesn't matter. I mean, if you're outside in the heat, I mean it's probably a different story. You know, it just depends the temperatures I that you're in. But the cooling aspect of the socket, I mean it, uh, it's an adjustment. So heating or cooling, it doesn't matter. We, you don't have to uh, have water in your, in your liner anymore, you know, or be dumping it out, or and so, basically, so that's, that's what that does for me.
Speaker 1:So I think one of the things that's interesting with patients and I think Brian hits on it is you know, everybody definitely is different.
Speaker 1:You know one of the things in this, this you know when, when a patient puts a prosthesis on, they first put, typically a gel liner, and through all the clinicians that we've had on the show, everybody says that a gel liner is one of those defining moments in prosthetic history where it made prosthetics better. But in the same way and I think amputees will point to that time in the same way there has been some issues that come along with gel liners, and so Brian touched on it just a little bit. You know the heat and the cold, so, especially like North Carolina, summers, super humid, and you just think about putting this gel liner, which is essentially the putting on a garbage bag, essentially onto your leg and then you put a socket on top of it, you're going to sweat and that sweat a lot of times will collect down into the bottom of the liner. So when Brian says that people will take the liner off and they'll literally spill water out, that is a comfort issue. And one of the things that I think Brian has done that's interesting is he's got these pads that will soak up the sweat to keep moisture from just building up and just keeping you from getting that kind of. You know, if you're in the swimming pool for a long period of time, your fingertips will kind of crinkle. The same sort of thing will happen with somebody's limb.
Speaker 1:But I think the other part that's interesting, brian, that you said is I mean, I would say that probably, unless people are on LinkedIn, the company, what you're doing, the heating and cooling is still not many people know about it. But the fact of the matter is people are finding you and writing you because this truly is an issue that nobody really has addressed, and you've seen some of the big companies address this. So, like Willowood, try to poke uh holes in their they call it their smart temp liner, um, and use some different gels, um, we've had some uh people on when we were at aopa that had these dynamic cooling um distal, distal caps, which was which was very interesting as well. But I think it's one of those things where you know, even as a prosthetist orthotist, when we talk about the heat specifically, not necessarily the cooling or the uh, yeah, being too hot, not necessarily a heating element, but the cooling aspect of sockets is is important and and and that's one of the reasons why in guatemala we don't use liners is because it's so hot and we like to use socks and something that will last a while as a, as a a padding, because we just see the the issues with sweat and liners.
Speaker 1:So I think like big, big picture, and I think one of the things that I'm interested in, brian, is how are people finding you? And then these I'd love to hear a little bit more about these. You know the messages like oh, my goodness, I've found somebody, somebody actually gets what I'm going through, and so like, if there's any patients that kind of pop to the top of your mind. I'd love to hear about that as well.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, recently there was a prosthetic company in Ohio that installed a heating element and you know just excited about the whole deal to go out, they're walking leg and you know have heat when they want it, turn the button, click the button on with a battery. And just, I mean Ogier. I mean I got a little message on LinkedIn from Ogier. I know the guy that was in sales for him. He no longer works there but he said, yeah, don't stop, keep going, it's needed for orthotics and we're super excited. And so these are. I mean I get a lot of the marketing aspect I've done on Facebook and LinkedIn. That's the most marketing that I've done. And you know I have sales in Europe and in Canada and in the United States. Trial basis in Europe because it needs to be CE certified.
Speaker 3:The heating and cooling but the heating is like a big deal. But like Unbroken Ukraine Corporation, you know I've sent heating and cooling device, what my components over there and you know I've got nothing but really great feedback. Like I could email Unbroken Ukraine Corporation. They get back to me like within a couple of days and Walter Reed, walter Reed Hospital, one of the processes there Todd text me and said, hey, you have heat. We see that. Your sign socket, we see that. You know that design for a sign socket. But can you, can you produce what we want? And I ate the expense. And I gave them, exactly with a company that I'm involved with, a heating unit designed exactly the way they wanted it for a sign socket for one of their patients and you know, so it's been really, it's been a really it's been just a great deal for me moving forward. And, like the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, minnesota, I was invited there and they ended up installing a heating unit in a socket, you know, in an arm. And so, yeah, I mean all these entities and you know it was great to get a text message from Walter Reed Hospital, one of their processes. You know that was that was pretty cool for me. And but yeah, I mean just all these other, these, these, um, I mean uh, autobach, the number one prosthetic company in the world, signed a contract with who I provided heated sockets for Hari Budamedkar special forces and uh, um Martin, uh, I think Martin is his name had a global sales.
Speaker 3:I just chimed in on linkedin one day and said there is no expeditions without heated sockets. They didn't realize that. So hari, he's scaling the seven summits in north america right now, but the first deal he was he scaled everest with a team special forces team and he had dominated it and they told me they would have never, ever even attempted it without the heated sockets. I met him in California actually the team and they gave me their sockets, they showed me what they had and what they tried to do and it wasn't looking good and so I ended up taking them back with me and, yeah, I'm a craftsman, so that's, I dialed it right in and you know, and that's what I continue to keep doing.
Speaker 3:Really great stuff going on. And, uh, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, minnesota, the best that they did they were showing me was put insulation in between the uh insert and final, or I mean between the uh both laminations first laminations and final. And uh, yeah, that was the best they did was the insulation, so that they came up with, but they were excited I had videos that I had taken there and all sorts of stuff and just you know, yeah, so that's basically what I do for my advertisement companies that I'm involved with that have purchased my heating elements that have you know, had nothing pretty good, pretty, I mean pretty great stuff to say about, you know, the heating and the cooling. I mean the cooling is a supply return line that I have. It actually flows water through the socket, through tubing, and a little ice, small volume of water, and it circulates through that carbon fiber socket and what I end up doing is I put a metal tape around the tubing and it enhances it. It spreads like wildfire. And the same thing with the heating element. It does the same thing and, uh, so it's been. Uh, I mean it's hard to get two mechanical systems to work together really, you know, without some effort and some a lot of work. But uh, for me this is like the stars lined up and I was able to, uh, it just, it just flowed really nice. And I think the carbon fiber is what, really, being a great conductor, is what really helped me out immensely with the heating and cooling.
Speaker 3:But the moisture control pads, that's the true distal end pad that I have with an L code, and I mean I just, I mean I don't think about my residual limb anymore. I don't think about when they say, don't let that get infected because we're taking your knee next. I mean, just, you know, keep an eye on it, and I mean what they have out there for moisture control today. I mean, I love my limb. I don't want to be putting salve on it at night so it doesn't sweat the next day, or you know, whatever they have out there, I believe that what I have and I'm the first one in the world to put you know a distal end pad that absorbs moisture inside of a liner.
Speaker 3:I mean I live it every day and you know, I, I, uh, I don't worry about it anymore and I just changed the pads out. Like, like, on hot, extreme days, I'll have like four or five pads and by the end of the day, my residual limb I mean, there's some sweat above, but my concern is the very, very bottom. That's the only thing that matters to me, because that's where that's my graph and um. So that's, that's been really, really a a good, uh, um, a good change up for me to have that type of technology where, no matter what, my residual limb is not going to sweat at the bottom. And I just changed the pad out.
Speaker 3:Actually, it was from a company. These three women owned a bra company. I ended up taking my daughter to Walmart. We're looking at these sports bras and I see that it's exactly exactly like the cup of my liner, and so I ended up calling this company these ladies. I told them what I had going on and what I'm suffering from. They were like oh, I'm on board, yeah, so I spent $10,000, bought some pads. I have them on my website and you know I'm an early startup company, so it's just been a process for me. But everything has worked out pretty good, and so that's where those pads come from.
Speaker 3:It's a wicking material and, uh, even for kids, I I think, uh, um, what was his name? Uh, ben ryan I, he's over in europe, in eng. I sent him them pads. He used them for kids, and then I seen on LinkedIn how exceptional they were in what they were doing with them for kids and stuff. So I was like, wow, that's cool, I liked, and so it's just been. You know, it's just been a really good, good, uh, all, all all around, um, uh, deal for me to uh continue to try to get better with what I have and to get it out there in the market. And I've even had amputees say, hey, that's way too cheap, you should charge a lot more than what you're charging. You know, I mean just all this stuff that.
Speaker 3:I mean the VA calls me. What happens with the VA? Hospitals, their patients call me. They go, this is who you contact. Tell them we want this, this, this, this, this and that, and so I make contact with them, but I never hear back from them and that's where that L code is going to come in, and I think, once I get that dialed in with Paragon Medical, right now they're doing it. Paragon Medical right now they're doing it. Once I receive that L code, it'll change things dramatically and so I'm just looking forward to see where all this goes and that and yeah. So that's where I'm at with it there. But yeah, the marketing I've done on Facebook and LinkedIn I got sales all over.
Speaker 2:And tell us a little bit about how do you? It's just like, are you doing this all by yourself? You seem to find kind of partners here and there.
Speaker 3:You find something interesting there or some other stuff there, I mean are you doing this whole time by yourself or is it like, or is there a there, a bunch of other people there? No, I'm 100 owner and what I ended up doing? I was invited to some medical competitions with what I had. I went to buffalo, new york, and in syracuse, new york there's a biotech accelerator. I was there for six months with doctors and what they had and you know and know, and then at the end you got to present to investors and I was early startup but I really I mean and it helps to have judges that are invested in you already but I realized that after some of those doctors had investors with them already. So I was like, yeah, I'm too early and it's not going to be looking good for me. The winner I mean I think they pulled the winner out who won at the end of the competition? There was like four, five teams.
Speaker 2:Did you use 3D printing at all in your development process and producing your parts and stuff?
Speaker 3:Right now I'm working with someone who's doing that. You know where you guys are. You guys are a level above, but they said your components it would be easy for us to install with my heating elements and you know the tubing that I use for the cooling. For the sockets I'll have an aluminum jig that will be placed on the first laminations.
Speaker 1:So when you're looking at these devices and you know.
Speaker 1:I've seen some of the holders and stuff that you've done with additive manufacturing and I think that allows you to iterate very quickly. What would you say has been your process? Because it sounds like you've really adopted a process of of iteration through multiple, like you're shipping a product and it's a very quality product, but as the product gets better, then you ship that product right. So, um, that's, that's what, at least for me, looking at what you're doing is like, hey, this works in this form. Oh, I found a better way to do it. Now that is going to be this generation and that's what's going to be shipping. Am I? Am I correct on that?
Speaker 3:100, correct.
Speaker 3:I mean I changed the fittings up recently so with um and it just, it just really just helped out immensely.
Speaker 3:I use a plug now so that nothing gets in the port with a connection for the heating unit and uh, yeah, I mean just those, those type of change, type of changes it's like in prosthetics, it's the small adjustments that you make are critical, that are huge, and so, just with the fittings, you know the are some hospitals that are interested in what I have where it comes to orthotics and infants with brain I can't remember what they said but some type of injuries where I can have like a cooling device on an infant head, a helmet, and you know, so it's just been breaking out everywhere lately and so it's been exciting for me. But yeah, I mean I just, you know I'm following it. I'm not, you know, trying to put been breaking out everywhere lately and so it's been exciting for me. But yeah, I mean, I just, you know I'm following it. I'm not, you know, trying to put it anywhere now. Now I'm like following wherever it's going and that's what direction it's sort of.
Speaker 1:So we have a lot of listeners, um, that you know are, I would say, innovators, and I mean, what would you say to them? Or a lot of people are, you know, looking to also create products or be a part of the orthotic and prosthetic industry? Obviously, you've found your niche in the heating and cooling side of things, but what would you say as far as a business owner and, you know, definitely an innovator side of things, it seems like innovator side of things. It seems like it seems like you're just a go you know, a go getter, and even though the product you know isn't necessarily perfect, slash, polished, whatever you're shipping, whereas other people are not, would you, would you say that that is a superpower?
Speaker 3:Jeez, you know I don't about a superpower, but I think for me, as a craftsman and have been around mechanical systems my whole life I think that that gave me a little, you know, a better direction. I mean I enjoy, I enjoy what I do and, you know, I think the stars have to line up a little bit also, and, you know, depending what type of technology you have, and you know, depending what type of technology you have, and but I I just I mean I just think that the need for it is what really propelled me into. You know, I'm driven now. So I mean I suffered from it. So that's really a key component.
Speaker 3:If you suffer from something and no one has a solution, you suffer from something and no one has a solution. Yeah, I mean, I mean I'm only here on linkedin as a result of companies top three companies in the world not being able to come up with what I suffer from. That's the only reason I'm here. I wouldn't be on linkedin. Um, so what I have now, my life has changed, so I'm all about, you know, the marketing and you know getting more comfortable with different aspects of this new direction that I'm going in. And you know I just continue to get better and, you know, learn. And so I mean, basically, that's where everything is.
Speaker 3:You know my drive comes from with this and plus it's, you know, I lost my leg to an illegal and these, you know, early on, they said Brian, why are you at this competition and why should we help you? I just said I don't want to lose my leg for nothing, and that's all I needed to say. And they were on board and you know, away we went and with some of these consultants that I had when I was in that competition that I needed, and so it was, it's just been, you know, really really good good. You know direction for me, I guess, with what happened, and you know what I'm doing and you know how it came about and yeah, and I mean I'm doing and how it came about, and yeah, and I mean I'm excited.
Speaker 2:It was never about money early on but I assure you it is now.
Speaker 3:So that's and the patents I have. I even went into another direction. I have these boards, these heating and cooling core regulated boards. This emergency room contacted me and said we've seen the installation of your heating unit that you have. Is there any way you could do this, this, this and this? What they were looking for is core regulated temperature boards so when trauma you know, with trauma patients they're able to control their temperature and that's just really a big deal. It's in manufacturing now. Actually, they gave me $50,000. They said, hey, help us dial this in. That's what I did. It's in manufacturing now. It's patent pending. You can see some of the drawings that I put up on LinkedIn. That's just another direction.
Speaker 3:That it went into Air flight mainly is what it will be used for. Like military coming from Europe to Walter Reed Hospital. They can maintain their temperature. Right now, the best thing that they have in emergency rooms because I'm an end user is heated blankets and ovens and ice. I got to witness this in emergency rooms that I hung out in and worked in and helped these people doctors and nurses and got to see people coming in missing faces, missing limbs, gunshot wounds. I mean just the whole deal.
Speaker 3:And so I can totally relate and understand and that technology. I'm like, wow, this is what you have. I was like astounded and one of the doctors said, hey, look, come over here in this other room. He goes, this machine blows cold air, but it takes 20 minutes for it to do it, and you know. So I mean, I'm just like, I was just like baffled about you know, the whole aspect of it. So not only for heating and cooling, you know, where it comes to prosthetics and orthotics, it's been needed for over 50 years and so it's just been a great, great deal. And it's really difficult to get someone in a manufacturer to you know, if you're not have a a lot of sales, major sales, for them to take that, to take that on, and you know, send them the drawings and so. But yeah, it's been, it's been a really great, uh great direction. For me it sort of seems a sort of it's like a second business that I have with that. So I'm super excited about it.
Speaker 2:So thank you so much, brian, for telling me your story and telling us what you've gone through and what you've made out of that and kind of the work you've been doing. So I think it's just really super exciting, thank you, thank you. Thank you for having me and thanks for being here as well, brent.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is cool, and to hear like the niche aspect and to really hear a user find something that also works for them and has created a business, I think is one of the unique things that we've had on the podcast as well, so thank you very much for being here for another episode of the Orthotics and Prosthetics Podcast.
Speaker 2:Have a great day.
