The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast
The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast is a deep dive into what 3D printing and Additive Manufacturing mean for prosthetics and orthotics. We’re Brent and Joris both passionate about 3D printing and Additive Manufacturing. We’re on a journey together to explore the digitization of prostheses and orthoses together. Join us! Have a question, suggestion or guest for us? Reach out. Or have a listen to the podcast here. The Prosthetic and Orthotic field is experiencing a revolution where manufacturing is being digitized. 3D scanning, CAD software, machine learning, automation software, apps, the internet, new materials and Additive Manufacturing are all impactful in and of themselves. These developments are now, in concert, collectively reshaping orthotics and prosthetics right now. We want to be on the cutting edge of these developments and understand them as they happen. We’ve decided to do a podcast to learn, understand and explore the revolution in prosthetics and orthotics.
The Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast
Next Level 3D Printed Orthoses and Prostheses with Jan Rosicky
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Jan describes how Invent Medical began as a ‘traditional’ fabrication business in the Czech Republic following the break-up of communism in the late 1980s. The organization slowly adopted technologies such as 3D printing, then introduced a series of digital technologies. ‘We gradually started to replace some of the old tools we had with digital technologies, and this enabled us to create more sophisticated designs and more advanced manufacturing processes… It allowed us to move to smarter and more efficient approaches,’ explains Jan. The company created more breathable, custom-fit cranial orthoses for babies, which allowed for more comfort for the patients, improving compliance. For Jan, this wasn’t possible without 3D printing.
Interestingly, the discussion also touches on Invent Medical’s global business operations, and how their markets differ in terms of challenges as well as opportunities, especially in the US and Europe. Jan also shares his experience about how 3D printing has revolutionized the O & P industry by making it possible to create prototypes rapidly and on-demand, as well as customized devices that are not only effective medically, but also more visually appealing than before. He emphasizes how Invent’s product development process is collaborative, with input from clinicians around the world, to tweak, refine, improve and test their product designs before they are marketed. The last part of the interview is a forward-looking view about the future of the O & P industry, with a strong advocacy for 3D printing technologies to revolutionize patient outcomes across the globe.
This episode is brought to you by Advanced 3D.
Innovation in Orthotic and Prosthetic Field
Speaker 1Welcome to Season 8 of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast. This is where we chat with experts in the field, patients who use these devices, physical therapists and the vendors who make it all happen. Our goal To share stories, tips and insights that ultimately help our patients get the best possible outcomes. Tune in and join the conversation. We are thrilled you are here and hope it is the highlight of your day. This is the Orthotics and Prosthetics Podcast with Yoris Pils and Brent Wright.
Speaker 1Yoris is not able to be with us today, but he actually had some insight into some of the questions that we're going to be asking our guest today and really excited about having Jan Rosicki on today. He's the co-founder and chief business development officer at Invent Medical and I'm just really excited about hearing the history behind not only Invent Medical but his journey as essentially a non-clinician into the space. And then we're going to hop into what additive manufacturing and such means to the orthotic and prosthetic field. Invent Medical has some beautiful products, not only with the trans-tibial socket called the AGO, but also the helmet 3D-printed helmet called the Tally, and a bunch of other really just beautiful products. And that's what I think of when I see Invent Medical like very thoughtful, methodical made for additive manufacturing products, so I'm looking forward to jumping into that as well. So, jan, welcome to the show man.
Speaker 2Hi Brent, Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to be here and really thank you so much for what you do for the field, driving the awareness of 3D printing and digital processes here on the podcast and on LinkedIn, so I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1Oh well, thank you, thank you. Well, you know, Joris usually asks this first question, but we're going to ask it to you here is how did you get involved in the field of orthotics and prosthetics? Because I think your journey is going to be definitely an interesting one and, I think, very relevant for those that are looking to get into the field as well.
Speaker 2Yeah, it wasn't so direct. So I actually studied, you know, graphic design, interactive media, marketing, and so I got I'm not a CPO myself, I'm in the field now for over eight years and you know my dad, he's been, you know, CPO his whole life. So you know he actually started the company the year I was born. So literally the whole life, you know, I was in a proximity to OMP and honestly, it was fascinating to me.
Speaker 2So I actually never thought myself I would be working in OMP initially, but I really enjoyed, you know, seeing how much difference this field can make, you know, to people's lives and to improve, you know, the quality of life. And I liked the technical aspect as well. So you know my dad, over the time they started to use various technology, you know, such as 3D printing and even software, and that to me was really exciting to see the potential and that really fusion of purpose technology and clinical and technical skills. So that really intrigued me and I decided that. You know I could actually, you know, use my background in OMP. So I was really happy when my dad offered me to join the company.
Speaker 1Well, that is really interesting and I love that you took this way and I noticed that you have some experience in kind of some of the not only the graphic design but some of the user interfaces and things of that nature as well. But before we get into that, I'd love to hear your perspective as a child growing up in the field, because digital tools weren't readily available at that time, and then, if you can just share a little bit of history and tell us a little bit about your interaction with your dad, what you saw kind of on the traditional side of things and then how that kind of transitioned into Invent, medical, yeah, so you know, maybe I'll start with a brief history of the company because, you know, as I saw it.
Speaker 2So actually, the company was founded more than 30 years ago, in 1991, by my dad and uncle and they started, you know, a CFAB in OMP with traditional fabrication, mainly focused on full door tactics, spinal braces. It was literally just, you know, those two. They took a loan and started, you know, building this company and you know we started in Czech Republic, which is in Central Europe, and it was just, you know, two years after the revolution, you know, when we got rid of the communist regime, and it was literally, you know, the first opportunity to start your own business, you know, to go independent. So that's what they did. And about 25 years ago they started a clinical facility, you know, focused on general orthotics and prosthetics, both kids and adults, you know. That grew so currently our clinical facility treats about, you know, thousands of patients each year. For example, in cranials we treat more than 1,000 babies per year in-house.
Speaker 2And my dad what I really admire about him, he's not only a CPO but also PhD in mechanical engineering. So you know, with that background he was always looking. How could he, you know, and us improve the devices really for our patients. You know how could we overcome the limitations of the traditional fabrication? And so that's why he set up initially a very small research and development team inside the company and he was really looking into, you know, another fields for inspiration like automotive and aerospace and other medical you know areas and, and you know, into these lean processes and inspiration such. So that's why, you know, about 20 years ago we adopted Scatscam, devmillion and and Sketchsoft, which really improved the process but honestly not really the final devices, and we became the distributor and academy center for Oster and we also did some, and still do some fabrication for them. So it was growing naturally.
Speaker 2And about 15 years ago my dad, you know, was fascinated with 3d printing and, uh, it definitely wasn't cool. The first 3d printer you know we had was actually the z corp uh powder based printer. So it was powder and glue, I'm not, I'm not sure if you're familiar. Oh, yeah, yeah, so, so, right, that was a like history and uh, and we used it, you know, to create like uh, to print molds for anaplastology right for for uh to pour then silicone and create this uh, you know, artificial missing limb replacements. So, uh, of course. Then we had a lot of different fdms and sla printers, uh, outsourced printing to various sls as well.
Speaker 2Actually, uh, before I joined the company, uh, my dad and our uh co-founder, alesh, and and chief designer, they were on a tour or on a trip to germany to buy a large, expensive sls printer and, uh, and on the way back, actually alesh found an article that the hp just announced, you know, this plan to get into 3d printing. So we actually, or you know they, uh, actually, you know, decided not to purchase this sls printer and wait for the hp, which, which actually turned out to be, uh, about two years, you know, down the road. So, and we're so happy that we did right, but, but it was uh, wild, wild west and and really people didn't know right what they were doing and you really had to learn yourself and there wasn't as many, you know, good resources online to learn as there is now. So we actually, you know, got one of the first HP printers in Europe and, of course, it's a complex machine with yourself, but it was a game changer for us because we could create new designs, really the new generation of the devices we could never do to improve comfort, function aesthetics, and I think that was really an important milestone for us. You know, for our design team, for what we can do and uh, and you know how are we going to fulfill our mission.
Speaker 2So we always the plan was always to create the 3d printed devices for our patients. You know, honestly, because we have a large clinical facility and we were looking for solutions. You know for our patients and especially we started with cranial orthosis because we've seen how the kids sweat. You know so much in those traditional cranial orthoses. You know that we were fabricating how bulky they are and we had this dream that we can make it breathable and comfortable and improve compliance with 3D printing, make it really perforated. And we did. And really the products we offer now is the products we've been fabricating traditionally or with CAD CAM for the past 20 years, be it the prosthetic sockets, smos, afos, and we only do with 3D printing the devices that we believe 3D printing adds significant value. So that's our decision-making process and we actually recently started to sell all our milling machines and replace it with 3D printing. So actually our plan is to get rid of CAD CAM from 95%, really replace it with 3D printing, because the 3D printing is finally there, which is so exciting, and my dad has seen it for the past 15 years.
Speaker 2I was fortunate enough to be part of this journey for the eight years. But we even were able to grow our clinical practice to almost double it by hiring no new CPOs, just making them, you know, productive, giving them, you know, this time to focus on patients, you know, instead of overseeing the fab. So that was really the point when we decided to offer those 3D printed devices to other companies, you know, such as ourselves, and we started to build the internal software team. And we started to build the internal software team. So that's when my colleagues, tom and Martin joined us and we created the in-house software team, grew our design team, and we have amazing talent, you know, in our company.
Speaker 2I'm so proud of the guys we work with, so, you know, they're award-winning and smart, creative, systematic and, uh, you know, what started as a really you know, two people tiny company in in central europe is now about uh, you know, a group of about 70 people. We sell now to more than 40 countries on five continents and provide tens of thousands of devices every year to more than 700, I believe hospitals and OMP chains and clinics. That's, you know, another great benefit of 3D printing, because it's just removing the borders. We have eight fabrication centers, from Mexico to Singapore. We're opening a new one in Australia, the South America, this year, a new one in the USA, in the US we've actually been in Philadelphia since 2018. So all devices sold in the USS market are made in the US and I think that's really important. It's locally made and we're also proud to be independent.
Speaker 2That's really what I admire my dad for Basically all he made in 30 years. He keeps, you know, investing back and and that's why we can be working with so many great people and he enjoys it. He's just, you know, uh, maybe a nerd a little bit, because he's just so excited about technology and can leverage it. So, um, you know, very, very proud of him and and I think what really drew me, uh, to the field the, the you know what I've seen from my background is it's a lot about the treatment experience. So, instead of you know, designing the digital experiences, uh, I I switched to think about, you know, holistic approach and and how to design tools for orthotists and prosthetists, but also maybe for patients or parents of the patients to work on that whole end-to-end treatment experience.
Speaker 1That's so cool and I think what sticks out to me the most is having the clinical background and technical background of their traditional fabrication and then moving into the digital side and really running the full gamut. You've got the carving that you had and you, early adopter of CAD CAM, saw the limitations there and then moving into 3D printing. You know there's a lot of for lack of a better term that sometimes we have to just work against, I guess, the hype of 3D printing and prosthetics and orthotics, especially what's in the news cycle. What would you say to people as far as why would they consider 3D printing for their practice or say even a specific product? What is kind of your go-to answer or perspective for that?
Innovating With 3D Printing in OMP
Speaker 2No, yeah, that's a great question. You know, what we truly believe in is right. 3d printing is a tool and it all comes down to design right. It's capable of producing great devices. It's capable of producing honestly terrible devices.
Speaker 2So, you know, our goal is, you know, does it add value? Are we making something that we're, you know, unable to ever achieve? This traditional fabrication? That's really the goal. So, really, we have three criteria Are we improving comfort? Are we improving function? Are we improving, you know, aesthetics, slash compliance.
Speaker 2So, you know, to give you a couple of examples, and, yeah, what you said, we need to have our own. You know hands on experience with those devices for years. You know from clinical and technical point. Otherwise, you know, we could be missing some important aspects. So, even though I'm not from the field, you know we have so many people that are CPOs and I think you just can never make it without that. So it's about the fusion of the skills of CPOs and you know, skills that CPOs traditionally don't have. So, with software, with design, with engineering, with testing, with design, with engineering, with testing.
Speaker 2So you know, as I mentioned, with the cranial remote in orthosis, our goal was to make the device that's very breathable, that's perforated. And you know what we hear from our customers that are, like you know, in climates that are hot and humid like Brazil or Singapore, with traditional helmets. They usually have so many issues, you know, with heat rash or with, you know other skin issues, and they said, you know, when we started to adopt 3D printed device you know that's perforated 90% of that those issues were just, you know, resolved. So I think that's a major benefit, you know, to create a whole new generation of devices that we could never fabricate before. And we came up with this uh two in one uh system in cranials. It's, it's something you know, with, with the traditional mindset, we would just never think of. And 3D printing really offers the opportunity to, let's say, strap the design back, you know, to it's just what is the functional indication, what is the you know real requirement for this device, what does it have to do? Let's forget how it looks today, because that's just the result of you know, really, all the limitations we had up until now. It's the result of limitations with traditional fabrication. Let's just write on the paper what the device needs to do and let's think from scratch. How are we going to achieve it when you know, with 3d printing, when you know very little limitations actually exist. So, and and ideally, you know which drawbacks of the traditional devices we want to solve. So that was, that was, you know, really, our first project and and uh, it's become um, really widely, uh, adopted. So so up until today, it's it's the globally number one.
Speaker 2You know, with this two in one system just like exchanging the posterior inner layer instead of, you know, grinding, the clinicians are saving up to, you know, 70% of the clinical time. It's, you know, amazing stability, because you're starting with the inner layer, that's, you know, good, for only about four weeks. Then you take a screwdriver, pop it out and pop in, you know, a second inner layer that allows for more growth and it's custom designed for every single patient. So with 3D printing, we actually are able to do a 4D modification, you know, in shape and in time, to project the, you know, treatment and combine growth that we could never get in a single device with the stability that's, you know, amazing, since there's no grinding required. We are able to do remote checkups. So it's just fascinating. I think we all are just scratching the surface of the designs that are possible to do, you know, in OMP with 3D printing.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, and I think that's what I really appreciate about what I've seen with Invent Medical and the product design stuff is it's not printing or printing what could be done in traditional. It is actually truly something that's a different product, something that solves a problem with their traditional way of manufacturing and makes it better. You know, I look at the augo socket and how you incorporate some of the flexible brim side of things and then even some of the internal stuff and then you've got all your distal ends and all that. But it's all consistent as far as look, design and that sort of thing. And so I think to me that is what is most impressive about the Invent Medical line is it's a step. It's not a lateral step at all. It's a step to make the functional product even better, and then there's aesthetics that go along with that.
Speaker 1I think that is pretty neat. I think that is pretty neat. Now, with the 3D printing side of things, I was just curious what has been your biggest challenge, and it can be like it would be interesting also to hear your perspective on the different markets. Right, so you've got a European market, a US market, and I think each one of those markets have their own challenges to try to break into, and you've got the difference in clinical perspectives or worldviews that go across the spectrum as well, so I'd love to hear you speak a little bit to that.
Innovations in Orthotics and Prosthetics
Speaker 2Yeah, I think it's a great question. Maybe, if you allow me, I would start with I'm the most excited about, you know, working with these all different markets. And you're right, you know it's so different. You know it's fascinating to me because we all have pretty much same bodies, you know, no matter which market. But the orthotic and prosthetic school sometimes is so different, the requirements are so different. In the US it's really about efficiency, while in some European countries it's just so different and where people are paid much more to build stuff in-house and there's pretty much almost no push, you know, to be efficient and see more patients. So it's interesting.
Speaker 2But you know, what I am really excited about, you know, talking to all these different, you know professionals from our field internationally, is we are very deliberate to listen to, you know, ask for feedback and see how different or the same problems are, you know, solved differently. Actually, our devices, you know a lot of those smart features, those, you know little details are, you know what our customers told us. So we are always, you know, very actively listening. What do you like, what do you don't like? You know what ideas you have. What would you wish for for, you know, in your wild dreams and we, uh, then you know, have the ability to implement that feedback quite quickly. You know, create a device that really is co-designed, you know, by, by customers in, in, in like 45 countries, and I think that's what I love about my job and being in omp like how different problem solving you know is applied on different markets by different people, how you know they approach to different patient cases, which solutions there are. So you know we cannot take all the credit for those designs, even though we have amazing, brilliant design team. But it's even more, you know, it's really what I like to call, like, you know, this international melting pot of OMB ideas. So I think you know that's what never was possible before right, those this break in borders.
Speaker 2You know again, and you also mentioned that you know the consistency of 3D printing production, of, you know, digital production. You know, in our central fat, you know, when we use CAD, cam or traditional fabrication, and I'm sure many other companies had the same issue is when you scale, you compromise on quality, on delivery times and so on. But with 3D printing, since it's all pretty much software and scalable, repeatable process, it's absolutely consistent and reliable outcomes, even if you scale 10 times. So that's what I'm excited about.
Speaker 2And, of course, the challenges you asked is regulatory is different in every market. Reimbursement is different in every market. You know that with 3D printing maybe you lose some quotes, maybe you can gain some other, but that's US. So I think what is interesting is, you know, once you start focusing on one market, it becomes more difficult to sell to the others because they have different needs, they have different priorities and different reimbursement structures and so on. So we all know how important it's it is to fit into the l codes the l codes which are so old and never were designed for 3d printing, and every country has you know something like that. So so that definitely is a challenge and honestly, when I talk to cpos at different markets, I know there's, you know, different priorities.
Speaker 2Sometimes it's saving clinical time, sometimes it's gaining competitive advantage. Sometimes you know it's there's really fear. You know what am I gonna do when 3d printing is going to steal my job? And that's not how it works. But it's also part of it explaining this that 3D printing is a tool and I believe us as a field will naturally become just more patient-focused instead of focused on fabrication, because if our value proposition is we are going to fabricate this device. Why companies in a type of Johnson Johnson, why they shouldn't just go to hospitals, put their printer, a software and replace the whole field? So our mission is really to protect the OMP field, give the tools that the CPOs have time to spend with patients and really become the clinical partners to PTs, to doctors. You know, protect our field from you know these attempts.
Speaker 1No, I think that's neat. I'd love for you to kind of just take our listeners into a journey. Let's, if you wanted to, even a couple of products, like how do people or your philosophy on, say, ordering a product, what is the clinical inputs and responsibilities, and then what is the responsibility of Invent Medical to provide a product? So I think that's one of the interesting things I think that you guys do is you control a lot of the production side of things, even maybe even the modification side. I'm not exactly sure on that, but you are working and partnering with clinicians to essentially make them very good communicators on what their final device is needing to do and needs to function. So can you take our listeners through that process? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2So you know our goal is basically to be, you know, the digital heads for the orthotists and prosthetists. So we understand we don't see the patient ourselves, so we need, you know, all the clinical inputs. Of course, the better scan we get, the better results. So either you scan the check socket in prosthetics or give us the STL In kids. Mostly you would still cast because you need that control and scan the cast from the outside. But our goal is not to push any clinician into a specific workflow. So if they prefer to create a plaster positive, modify themselves, do the buildups and scan the modified positive. We are able to do that as well. So we are able to let our customers and partners decide how much involved they want to be and that really is almost per market. So we know some markets 99% of people prefers to modify themselves. Some markets 99% of people prefers to have us modify the modes people prefer to have us modify the modes. So we get the patient information, we get the anatomical data, we get the indication and the requirements. So our customers we have basically like a visual configurator. You can imagine it as a power online configurator where you select the type of the device. You select, of course all the different add-ons and features it has to have. So it wouldn't be too different. You know from ordering forms of, you know some of the well-known CFAPs. But we are able to add even more options of customization of different small design changes that our customers can request. So we have the basic section of configuration and then the advanced section. So usually customers can select the trim line maybe you know proximal to med heads or you know longer on the lateral side but we also have a version of the configurator where they can draw the trim lines either on the cast or in our software on the device. So we really don't want to push the CPOs you CPOs into one workflow but offer them a tool set that they can work with. But in any case it doesn't take more than a couple hours to master and start using. And what we are fascinated with 3D printing is right now or always. With OMP it was choose the material and choose the thickness. Here we may be a little bit limited with the materials, but we can implement hundreds of thicknesses right throughout each device. So, based on patient activity level, weight size, many more parameters such as device type, we designed a thickness custom to every patient to make sure that the device doesn't break, is safe and reliable but is as low profile and lightweight as possible. So we built this very easy to use online basically ordering form we call it configurator where orthotists fill in all this information, upload the scan. We deliver, usually in two weeks, the final device ready for fitting. But it's still adjustable. And why we want to control the whole.
Speaker 2You know design printing, post-processing, assembly phase is, I'm sure you know it yourself, how many parameters you know influence the 3d printing. Uh, you know influence the 3D printing. You know the cooling, the even position and nesting of the devices in the printer, then so many different. You know types of post-processing and the settings of post-processing don't really have a good experience with just, you know, sending the data and print it wherever you want and and finish it. It really adds so much value when it's. You know end-to-end. You know who designs it, understands how it should be printed, um, or at least works very closely, you know, with that printing partner that understands the omp and you know really fine-tuned all the SOPs, the procedures and quality assurance gates to make sure that the device will end up, you know, after printing, after assembly, in the quality that they expect. So that's why we're also able to give you know warranty on those devices, no, and I think that's great.
Speaker 1I mean, I can't say I blame you. You know some of the stuff that we get in is less than impressive. I could say that we have to work with, and so you know, it's a funny little industry for sure when it comes to that.
Speaker 1But I think it's important like what you said at the very beginning is the scan is the foundation that can literally make or break you as far as a fitting, you know, and one scan is not the same as the other scan and so having that education with the clinicians and the practices and that sort of thing is so important. And I think one thing that people and I think you guys actually do a good job because you have to know what you're getting. But you can use a scanner and make it work. You just have to know which one you're using and know what the tool does. That's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1It's a tool for you to use and if you know the nuances about the tool, the problem is is that you may know the nuances and so, let's say, you do FDM inside your practice and that sort of thing of that, but then you send off to somebody else. It's going to be different, and that's that's one of the challenges that I find with just 3D in general. Is that foundational piece of information is so key? How are you confirming that what you are getting ready to print is actually what was scanned or perceived scanned? And I know you can have quality checks along the way for that but just wondering, like if you're able to share what some of that looks like in your process.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know, brent, I was nod in my head all the time as you were talking because, yeah, the cast it's or, or the scan it's absolutely, you know, critical. If you know my advice to anybody who wants to start 3d printing, make sure you take a good cast and make sure you take a good scan, because no man, you know, especially with digital processes and 3d printing, it's so accurate that you know, um, yeah, pretty much garbage in, garbage out, right, there's, you know so many and I don't want to, you know, blame anybody. But there's practitioners, you know, they just send the cast or scan, you know, to traditional cfab and say, you know, fix it and get me something out of it, but with 3d printing it's really a shame to do it, it doesn't work, so. So sometimes we have to, you know, reject uh the scans that we get and a big portion of our online training, uh, so, so maybe to to start, you know, uh, uh it properly before anybody can start, you know, ordering from us. We offer this online training, which is free of charge, depending on the product type. It can take from 20 minutes for smos to up to four hours for cranios, and in this training, a big portion is, you know, explaining to our potential customers how to scan, which scanners to use, how to know if the scan is good or not. So education is a big part of it. You know, every year we test about 30 scanners in-house and compare them to a baseline, which for us is the tech.
Speaker 2So the same model scanned, you know, with RTAG, and then compared to all the others you know, from different iPhone apps, ipad scanners, to, you know, handheld scanners, cheap and expensive, so that we are able to make this informed suggestion to our customers. And with some devices we even have a list of approved scanners that they can use. Just to make it simple for customers, just to make it simple for customers. So I would say maybe even half of the customers that start with us buy a new 3D scanner. It makes so much sense, saves you so much time and even money down the road that it makes sense. And recently I'm quite impressed with the Shining, you know, scanners, which the Einstar is, you know, like $1,000 and just works great. So that would be my recommendation for anybody who wants to get into pretty accurate and easy to use, scanning in OMV, scanning in OMB.
Speaker 2Then you know, once we receive the order. We actually the fastest growing team inside the company is something we call data inspectors. So each set of you know, clinical, technical and scanning data that comes through our ordering is actually inspected by this team. Through our ordering, is actually inspected by this team, which has a clinician technician and then a team focused on this data inspection. So that's even before we start the design process, where we are able to just stop 90% of the orders that don't have sufficient scan data, of the orders that don't have sufficient scan data.
Speaker 2After the design process, the same team checks the data even before it's printed and we actually developed a huge software in-house to help us evaluate all this data for accuracy, how it fits to the modified scan, how it fulfills all the requirements we created. And once it's printed, another team checks the device and compares it to the data to make sure that even after printing and assembly it's what we really wanted. So there's, you know, a big part of automation, but also this team that is overseeing this process and communicates to our partners. You know if maybe some configuration doesn't make sense clinically or the scan is not correct. So that's, you know how we approached it and I think without that it just wouldn't work.
Speaker 1No, and I think that's great. And I think the underlying theme of all this is and you've mentioned it earlier on is this idea of software and data. And so I kind of envision you guys almost like Tesla. It's like Tesla yes, they make cars, but that's not actually what they do. They process all the data and data points really around the world of all the roads, and they have massive things to make the experience of the end user even better and better.
The Future of O&P Technology
Speaker 1And so I see, like I see that role in data, specifically for o and p, just increasing and increasing and so for, especially when you talk about the helmets and such and the data that you guys have fitting, uh, literally thousands of these, um, you're just making the product better and better and better because you have a wealth of data and you've jumped ahead and even some of the old data right. And I think the other thing that is interesting about all that and we touched on it a little bit earlier everybody has a body, bone structure, that sort of thing. So I'm sure you start to see even themes along some of these modification processes with the data that you have. And I think that's that's the exciting frontier, that in omp, that not a lot of people are talking about, but I think it is going to be the biggest part of creating O&P products in the future for orthotics, prosthetic, present and future definitely on the front end, what customers see is we're basically, you know, their digital c-fab.
Speaker 2They send us the right data, we give them the patient specific devices. But but behind the scenes it's really the omp clinic, you know, that started traditionally with the fab, turned into into a software company with a design and engineering department. So it's really what we are building is software. Yeah.
Speaker 1So I want to get a little bit more some stories. I think it really resonates with our audience for you to share a case that you've seen of a clinician that maybe has been entrenched in the traditional side of things. Try a product 3D printed product for the first time and that helped them make a change, or for the better, for their practice. Do you have anything that comes to mind on that?
Speaker 2I don't want to name specific people or companies but, honestly, you know, some of our customers start in the way, you know. We started, we tested everything. It didn't work, so you know why not use you. And 3D printing, you know, for our most challenging, you know, patients. So this was a case, you know, of ground reaction, afos, distrational fabrication. You know this customer, it just would never, you know, fit right and break and they were just like, you know, the anatomy was just like, so unique that they were all right. We tried everything, let's, you know we wanted to start with you. So let's start with this case and of course, it's not what we prefer, because we always like to, you know, start walking before running. But uh, yeah, it it was for, uh, for a girl, and and she just loved, you know, the AFOs. She's still wearing them and it was a complete success, you know. And the company started then to utilize, you know, our AFO line since then. But they really, you know, chose this just case. They couldn't crack, you know, to start with.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, oh, that's a great one. That's a great one. So on the, on the on the personal side, with the, with patient, like I know, you get a ton of stories. But any patient stories that just come to top of mind of where that you know they may have been in some sort of traditional something, another, and they were maybe down to their last options and they tried something that you guys had and it worked and made a difference in a patient's life. Do you have a story around that?
Speaker 2I personally, mostly, you know, kids I see are at our clinical facility and it's cranials, so you know. So, with cranials, right, it's not like it would be the last resort and just probably like that, but we have had cases, you know, when the maybe older brother was wearing the traditional helmet and and, uh, you know younger sibling was now in the, in the 3d printed helmet, and the parents were just like so amazed you know, about the difference of of that device and also, uh, you know how much more comfortable and breathable you know it is, so how much less sweating uh, there is. Um, so that reminds me actually, in, uh, in us, you know we had a customer that had a patient, you know, for cranials that, with eczema and, uh, you know this patient just refused the traditional cranial orthosis because, you know the skin issues were just so severe that they couldn't proceed with the treatment. So they actually started the or tested, you know, the 3d printed device from us and you know no skin issues at all. So, so that was definitely a great case when otherwise, you know, this patient wouldn't be able to continue, you know, with the uh cranial remodeling, uh treatment and and in this way, uh, you know, oh, that's a great, yeah, great story.
Speaker 1And I love that because somebody has some you know, pre, pre-knowledge of what the what the process was like, and now this change with another kiddo and another kiddo, and now they see how it is, so that's a great story.
Speaker 2Yeah, also what I keep hearing from our customers in our flexible SMO. We just love the TPU material, right, it's such a great fit for the OMP field. And so we have this SMO, which is just pure TPU, and it's also available for measurements and we're taking, you know, one more measurement than you know most of the other providers. With traditional production you could never have so many options available like this. You know dummies or whatever, and with software you don't mind, right, but it adds. You know millions of other like versions so you can get so much better fit.
Speaker 2You know the Calcaneus capture, that device. You know when it's printed and when you introduce more data on the. You know in the entry. So it's just really fascinating what you know the software in combination with design, in combination with 3d printing, can provide. And and you know I'm going to repeat, I think we're just all scratching the surface and and the designs we all can produce are just unlimited and and the bottleneck is our imagination. So so that's you know what we're just so excited about. And and for sure, in, you know, five years the omp devices will look probably anything like they do today.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, for for our listeners that have never ventured into the digital side of things, what advice do you have for them to get started?
Speaker 2accurate with scanning. You know, if you spend five more minutes in scanning, it's gonna save you, uh, an hour, uh, down the road. You know, on adjustments, on fitting and all of that. So, uh, that would be my number one advice. Um, I don't want to promote us too much, but, but you know that's our goal to make it just a plug and play solution, right, to pretty much offer the digital form uh, which is pretty much, you know, familiar to, to people using other cfabs. They fill it in and get back right the, the 3d printed device and they use the fully digital uh process. So it can be really as simple as that. You know 20 minute training fill in this form and get back the device into it's going to fit well and voila, you're using, you know, 3d printing and digital processes.
Speaker 2But that's our goal to democratize otherwise quite complex technology, right, the 3D printing is very far from being plug and play, and and the design part, that's something that really cpos need to learn the hard way and I I don't think many have, uh, you know, opportunity, um, time, money, uh, to do that right. So so that's that's you know, where we can help to, to just make it very accessible to everybody. So so I think you know a huge portion of cases we can solve like that. But yeah, then for those you know five to ten percent of very unique anatomies patients, they always will have to be of very unique anatomies patients. They always will have to be uh done, you know, in a very custom, uh hands-on, individual um way, uh in-house, yeah well, as we get to the end of this, I want to just ask a kind of more of an open-ended question.
Speaker 1We've covered a whole bunch of things you know from the business side the 3d printings, some of the history. Is there anything that our listeners that we missed, that you think they should know either, about you Invent, medical, the 3D printing side of things that you can leave them with?
Speaker 2That's a great question. So what I would recommend everybody in our field to think about is, you know, I believe, that 3D printing and digital processes daily, very, very soon, starting yesterday. So it's something to be mindful of and the companies should prepare for that. So, you know, either it could be a big opportunity where a lot of companies will, um, you know, become winners, uh, of this and get more market share, uh, more referrals, more you know, patient sources. Some will be late adopters and and will lose in this transformation. That's always, you know, when the technology is changing. So I think it's nothing to be scared of.
Speaker 2I think it's a beautiful opportunity, not only for our field, but especially, you know, for our patients that we serve to really get them devices that we were really limited by the tools we were using, and we're not limited anymore. So there's a, there's a way to hopefully improve comfort for our patients. So that's that's what we all should be excited about, and the way there is. You know, there's so many different ways to start, but it doesn't need to be difficult and complex. There's a lot of resources online now. So I would encourage everybody to, you know, look for a way and start, you know, getting their hands dirty.
Speaker 1Oh, I think that's. I think that's great advice, and I think the other part that I think I appreciate about what you have said is that the world has become very flat. There's experts literally around the world that are in access to 3D printers, professional 3D printers and, yeah, that's an exciting part about the omp side of things is that these, these people are literally uh, worldwide and and wanting to help you know, it's an interesting dichotomy I guess you would say uh is those that are really trying to get the 3d printing side of things going. Within orthotics and prosthetics. There is almost like a little bit of a brotherhood.
Speaker 1I mean, there's obviously some competition, some people that don't want to be part of the brotherhood, but a brotherhood of people. Hey, we're just trying to raise the level of care for the orthotic and prosthetic field by moving into the digital space, because, I mean, what you just described and what I truly believe is that the outcomes for patients in these kind of 3D printed device are better than in traditionally fabricated devices, and it just is. And so the idea is, hey, let's try to get all of our colleagues moving in this direction so, ultimately, our patients get the best care and best outcomes possible. Definitely.
Speaker 2Definitely, and I think it's also about you know asking different questions right Before right. What we see all the time on LinkedIn is, you know, people asking, all right, which thickness should be this device printed in? And it's become more complex and maybe we need to change our mindset with the approach to this technology. But it can be. Definitely. The technology already proved that it can be safe, it can be reliable for all kinds of applications and devices. I think it's inevitably the future, or probably even today, you know, for our field and it's exciting for the patients. So, yeah, we should work as a field to get there. There's not a single right way to do it and, as you said, there's so many people willing to help with that, which is amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1Well, hey, thanks, jan, for being on today. I think our listeners are going to get a lot out of this podcast. There's a lot of nuggets of wisdom and really some areas of action for our listeners to take. So thank you again for sharing your journey and being generous with your time today. Thank you for having me it was fun, all right and thank you for listening to the Prosthetics and Orthotics podcast. We will see you on the next one.
